Fear Street, Part III: 1666 (AKA Hocus Pocus Levels of Acting) w/ SE Fleenor and Craig Alexander

It's time for the final installment of our Fear Street watch! 

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What is Progressively Horrified?

A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.

Fear Street III
Ben: [00:00:00] They got in internet beef with each other, and one of them was like, well, fuck you, I'm just gonna snitch to the cops, then. And in Japan, they were like, oh yeah, no, fucking One Piece, that's like, 15 percent of our national GDP, like, the financial crime of the highest order.
Emily: Yeah. Meanwhile, American comic companies are like, what are we doing wrong?
Ben: American comics continue to exist because DC Comics is such a small line item that David Zaslav doesn't know he actually runs a comics company.
Jeremy: It's not worth enough to write off.
Craig: He's like, oh, Blue Beetle, like, in the movies?
Ben: It is crazy how Warner Brothers legitimate financial strategy seems to be the cinematic equivalent of, burning down your own business? But apparently, that's
Jeremy: literally the fucking producers
Ben: That's legal?
S. E. : I think we could have done a lot better with our society if [00:01:00] I just think we could have done better.
Start
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to Progressively Horrified, the podcast where we hold horror to progressive standards it never agreed to.
Jeremy: Tonight We are talking about the third part, the final part of the trilogy, these interconnected horror movies based on the work of R. L. Stine. No, not those works of R. L. Stine. The Fear Street ones, those are the ones we're talking about. Uh, this is Fear Street, colon, part three, colon, sixteen sixty six.
Jeremy: Which I feel like is the whole reason for any of these dates, is so they can get 1666 on there. Anyway, I am your host Jeremy Whitley, and with me tonight I have a panel of cinephiles and cenobites. First, they're here to [00:02:00] challenge the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire, binary, my co host Ben Kahn. Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Finally, the answer to the question, what if the creator of Goosebumps did a portrait of a lady on fire?
Jeremy: That's what everybody's been asking.
Emily: Yeah. love the idea of the lesbian period piece drama turned into a horror movie, I'm just unsure this is the one.
Craig: I mean, it would be a horror story, I feel.
Ben: Oh So, you know. I
Craig: I'm not supposed to talk yet. I haven't been introduced. Sorry.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: version of that premise. Fucking killer. I'm sorry.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin. How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: I'm okay. I mean, I would be better if they just, instead of doing this whole flashback thing, they just had the whole cast perform on a stage, their rendition of Our Town. And then that would be just the [00:03:00] story, you know? Yeah.
Jeremy: And our guest tonight writer, editor, and co host of Bitches on Comics, S. E. Fleenor. Welcome, S. E.!
S. E. : Hello. I think as usual, my standards are lower than everyone else's.
Jeremy: And multimedia artist and critic, Craig Alexander. Craig, great to have you back!
Craig: Hello. I've never watched something and it gets to a point where you're like, oh, everything before this was written to get to this point. That's how I feel about this. Like, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, that one line where you're like, oh, this was the line that like the writer, the creator, the director, had in like a moment, in like a fever dream, everything that happened before this was written so that we could get to this point.
Jeremy: This is R. L. Stine's
Ben: it's definitely,
Craig: yeah.
Ben: it's definitely got the energy and I've definitely had that.
Craig: it was like, oh my god, 1666, [00:04:00] 666. Okay, great. Now we have a story taking place in 1666, witches. Okay, all right, now we gotta work back from there. Okay, witches, women, lesbians. Okay, now everything was, was reverse engineered from 666 and then 1666.
Craig: Absolutely.
Jeremy: Guys might somehow demonize women and cause a witch hunt because of, uh, lesbians, because of being rejected, uh, such a sci fi premise so far out there.
Craig: Yeah. I mean, this is just like, this is one of the most like fantastical premises I've ever heard of a movie of just like men demonizing women because they don't find them desirable despite them having all of the power. It's like, wow. who would even
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: that is the most relevant theme we have here, cause we are seeing it all fuckin over, is these fuckin [00:05:00] billionaire men who demand not only all the wealth and all the power, but that we thank them and love them for them
Craig: Oh yeah.
Ben: yeah,
Craig: Oh yeah. Like you have to be
Ben: Musk, Bill Ackman fuckin
Craig: you not only have to have the power, but you have to be liked, you have to be liked. And it's like, you're. a terrible person.
Emily: Pick one.
Craig: not even just like, simply because you have money, but like, because the reason why you have money is because of the things you're willing to do because you're a terrible person.
Jeremy: just I don't want to be I don't want to be Elon Musk's friend Which is maybe the problem here, I would like to
Jeremy: be in a position to be like, hey, you know There are easier things and less expensive things you can do to get people to like you like you have a lot of money What if you
Craig: And also,
Jeremy: they want?
Craig: and also if you have that much money, like, I am you know, relatively poor in the overall, you know, like the average income of [00:06:00] America. I am below the threshold of like, even middle class, within that like working class slash kind of barely hanging on through like having a series of beneficial, things happen to my, living situations.
Craig: And I give less fucks about whether or not people care about who I am or like me than someone who has billions of dollars. Like, I, I am, I am, and especially compared to the Mark Musks, the
S. E. : Richer Week!
Craig: like, you know, like,
Ben: I
S. E. : Richer Week! They're little fuckin punks!
Craig: person.
Ben: we're talking about
Craig: likes me
Ben: so fucking
Craig: a billionaire.
Ben: that he created an alt account to call himself a good dad. Heh
Craig: talking about someone who spent 44 billion to buy a social media network because people didn't like him on it. Like,
S. E. : we're talking about.
S. E. : someone who got [00:07:00] kicked off the board of PayPal because he wanted to name it X. And they were like, that's dumb. And he was like, well I'm gonna buy something else and name it X. And he did! And we all just went
S. E. : Okay.
Craig: All right. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, thank you, uh, ladies, gentlemen, gays, and bays and welcome to the fuck Elon Musk podcast. Uh, you know,
Ben: Jeremy, you have completely lost control of your show.
Jeremy: This is episode 6 000 of that
Ben: I'm so Emily, to get us to get us slightly back on track, Emily, I am you mentioned that it should that it should have been them on a stage. I feel like there's a lot in this whole part that would have been more excusable if it they were literally doing a stage play. Uh, things like literally the worst wigs I've ever seen in a movie.
Emily: there was a lot of stage play kind, like, coded presentation here, which sometimes I like that in a movie. Sometimes it's cool in a
Emily: movie. Sometimes it's [00:08:00] fun.
Ben: What's really stage play coded is the high school play level Thanksgiving pageant fake pilgrim accents.
Emily: That they continue to use in the, in the 1994 part, like, that I hear the, the, the accents creep through, or
Craig: yeah,
Emily: weren't
Emily: that great
Jeremy: I, when I brought up Hocus Pocus last time, I was joking, but like, this is really like Hocus Pocus levels of acting, and I'm like, that, that, those bookends in Hocus Pocus are very bad, with the exception of the witches, like, everybody else is terrible, and this is at that same level.
Craig: think that, yeah, I think that the performances are definitely not period appropriate.
Jeremy: do, I do want to talk about that
Craig: I do enjoy that. I do enjoy them though. I think, and I also enjoyed that, like, Almost every character is like the generic store brand version of a lot of like Game of Thrones characters.
Craig: It feels like, you know,
Emily: it [00:09:00] felt that those characters felt to me like it was like what was happening was the teenage girl explaining the situation and they were all acting like I kind of wish that they just went full our flag means death with it. And then they had everybody be like, like, Oh my God, what the fuck
Ben: I absolutely believe they got the wigs from like, they went to a fucking Spirit Halloween and they got a bunch of Ned Stark and Jon Snow costumes
Craig: Yeah,
Jeremy: like
Craig: just like, yeah, just like fully overlay the like modern like dialogue and dialect over this like ancient or like, you know, archaic like sensibility of like, oh yeah, like, oh my God, bitch, can you believe like,
S. E. : That would be
S. E. : so funny. That would have been so
Ben: I honestly wish they had just gone Full Knight's Tale
Craig: like, oh my God, bitch, guess who I saw? Guess who I saw dancing with the devil in the fucking pale moonlight? Oh my God, that bitch goodie. Oh my God,
S. E. : would have been really funny. That would have been really
S. E. : funny
Ben: somebody at some point had been [00:10:00] like, Zachariah, that fucking slut,
Craig: Yeah.
Ben: so happy.
Jeremy: Okay, so,
Craig: my God. I want to make that movie now. Let's do it.
Ben: Yes. That's on, you know what that is? That's um, the Aubrey Plaza, uh, Alison Brie Nunn movie.
Craig: I was, I was literally thinking about the, the afters, the hours,
Ben: Yeah.
Craig: that.
Craig: yeah.
Jeremy: directed by Leigh Janiak. Uh, we've talked about. She also co-wrote it along with Phil Graziadei and Kate Trefry and of course, again, R. L. Stine who wrote the stuff that's the basis for all of this. And basically, this cast is both the casts of the first two movies. Like, everybody kind of gets thrown into the sixty six sixteen sixty six part, halfway playing Pilgrim characters, and then we get the whole, like, We get the non dead part of the original cast in the, uh, the bookend section.
Jeremy: [00:11:00] and, a lot more of, uh, our, our grown-up C. Berman in there. Whose job is mostly to stand around and look traumatized in this, I realized as we were watching it. I, you know, so we, we sort of ended the last episode with our protagonist from the first story Sarah Fier, or Dina, who's played by Kiana Madeira, getting transported back, we're unsure how exactly, by touching the, the bones and everything, getting transported back to 1666, and she's sort of put in the body of Sarah Fier.
Jeremy: Now we will sort of see through a lot of like,
Craig: It's part of the curse, you know,
Jeremy: yeah, through a lot of like,
Craig: go with that.
Jeremy: stuff that they do in the story, reflections and things like that, we'll see that like, That's not what other people are seeing. They're not seeing, as I was saying, this, uh, lesbian mixed race character.
Jeremy: They're seeing, also, I guess, lesbian Sarah Fier.
Ben: Well, as we know, that is the recurring theme, is that no matter the decade, there will be lesbians.[00:12:00]
Emily: Yeah. And only gay people
Jeremy: That's the real
Emily: No,
Ben: Lesbianism is eternal is the true theme of this trilogy, which is, I love.
Craig: No, that's,
Emily: a lesbian can solve a lesbian curse.
Craig: it's an evergreen message.
Emily: Yeah, this is
S. E. : Well, she's been calling to them, right? She's been calling to
S. E. : them, but
S. E. : only the
Craig: I think, I actually think this
S. E. : only the
Craig: origin of the, I think this is the origin of the disaster lesbian trope. So, you know, like, just
S. E. : Only, only the lesbians could hear her call.
Craig: that, not, not like as like, not within media, but like within history, you know, this is
Ben: So, Sarah
Craig: of the disaster lesbian.
Craig: Sarah Fier.
Ben: this is Sarah Fier succeeding and going. Let's go, lesbians, let's go.
Craig: Yeah, yeah. Which,
Craig: I mean,
Jeremy: years she's been trying to get the lesbians to
Ben: Let's get our lesbians!
Jeremy: finally, Finally, the 1990s is the time. The thing that is most confusing about this to me, they throw a lot of different characters into various, like, different actors into various roles that they [00:13:00] may or may not actually work in. Dina's actual brother from the original, uh, Henry, who is, is played by Benjamin Flores Jr.,
Jeremy: who is black, is, put sort of in the, like, brother role with a Sarah Fier, and I'm not sure. Because nobody else, everybody else seems to just look like what they think, what they appear to look like. But he is like the only black person in this town?
Ben: Well, we've also got
Craig: Well, yeah, it's like, it's, it's kind of like, and that's like what you're saying as far as like, it's weird to fill in only a portion of the characters within like the historical context as characters that we've seen in the later movies, because then there's like, Characters are like people within like the 1666 storyline who don't match up with anyone that we've seen so
Ben: Like, is the dad
Craig: who are like, who are like within like the 1666 storyline who Dina knows in real [00:14:00] life, but also are not like, always a one to one with who they are in her actual life in 1994.
Ben: of it is definitely just, like, they wanted an excuse to bring Emily Rudd and Sadie Sink back.
Craig: Yeah, which, you know, it's fine.
Craig: It's fine. It's I get it. I get it as far as like, and honestly, I think that as far as like, you know, ridiculous preconceptions go for, a storyline and, and, and throwing in actors for gratuitous reasons. It's, it's, it's one that works for me. I think it's kind of fun.
Craig: I definitely have moments where I'm like, why are these the ones that are here when there are people who are not here? And why wouldn't it be like full on, like, where's it of Oz? Where it's like, okay, maybe the main character is like the person that we know, but then everyone else is kind of like, an alternate, like, reality version that, like, may have, like, representative qualities of these characters, but.
Craig: is not the [00:15:00] specific person within like shape and form. I, that, yeah. So like, I, I, I understand like the reasoning behind it because
Ben: I feel like
Craig: they probably just didn't want to cast more people,
Ben: I feel like that's kinda what they were going for.
Craig: yeah.
Emily: really come across.
Jeremy: I think the, the, part where that falls apart a little bit to me is just the family. Because the, the brother, it's like unclear. if that's her brother, like, what, what the deal is there. And then, uh, we, we do actually get to see her dad in, in this, this time period, who, as we mentioned
Ben: Yeah, that's the question.
Jeremy: by a puddle of beer cans.
Jeremy: Um,
Ben: dad from 1666 what her dad in 1994 actually looks like? That's what we don't get. I love that the dad, who remains completely off screen, gets a character arc throughout this trilogy.
Craig: It's also
Craig: weird. Yeah,
Ben: off screen esque, like, character arc.
Jeremy: I just, I just wanted to know whether, like, mom whom everybody seems to love in retrospect, I wanted to know if her mom is [00:16:00] black. Like, that was
Craig: yeah, that's
Craig: yeah, I mean,
Jeremy: I was just like, is this
Craig: my question too is like, because first of all, like, while Dina very much looks like a mixed race person, like, her brother does not look really look like He's like half white. And so it's like one of those things where, you know, and just for anyone listening, I am the black person that is here today.
Craig: So, you know, we don't have to get into anyone being problematic. I'm just, you know, based on my observation is like living as a black person and being around black people, my entire life, you know, Dina is very much like fair, like lighter skinned. has like a looser like curly hair texture whereas like her brother is like mid to dark skinned and has like straight up like kinky coily 4c hair and you know like that is a possibility it's a very like far end of like the Punnett squares thing yeah you know that's a it's a very [00:17:00] like Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, Mendel, yeah, exactly.
Craig: It's a very, like, you know, uh, you know, far off, like, possibility, but it's one of those things where it's like, I would very much like to see, at least, like, Someone else black in this series to kind of like get an understanding of where, like what this family dynamic
Ben: the dad showed up, I'm not gonna lie, my first thought was like, What?
Craig: because yeah, and honestly, it's like, okay, never mind.
Craig: I'm not going to go into my whole like, you know,
Jeremy: I just, I just wanted to know,
Craig: recessive traits and dominant
Emily: Oh yeah, well that's, I mean,
Craig: but
Emily: also confusing because she is, Sarah Fier is separate from Dina, and we are shown that Sarah Fier is separate from Dina, so if they're doing it, if we're
Jeremy: and Josh being brother and sister makes sense. Sarah Fier and Henry being brother and sister, there's [00:18:00] like, well, hold on, just,
Emily: begs a lot of
Jeremy: like I'm
Craig: I mean, maybe half brother, half brother and sister, but you know, that's,
Emily: There was a black guy in the background at once, but I mean, like, it does not count, but I mean, like, there was a
Ben: Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like, we know, like, we know Sarah is like, it's all just like, Dina doesn't really look like Sarah. Like, Sarah's the only character we see the real version of, I mean, it, there's no explanation for why Dina is seeing fucking Sadie Sink or Emily Rudd, people who
Craig: Right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's like her
Ben: but I, they're like, there's, it's clearly just like, I think it has to just be that, like.
Ben: She's just, you know, interpreting the concept of brother through her own
Craig: yeah, well, it's either that or like, uh, so I, so, I just watched like this show like this Korean, this like K drama, nine tales it's on Netflix. And it's like this moment where it's like, Oh, this character is like, it's like fully like reincarnation [00:19:00] where it's like, oh, this character is the reincarnation of this person who lived, you know, a thousand years ago.
Craig: And then through some like, you know, celestial like providence, the people that end up around her also people that were like reincarnated within like the same looking bodies as they were when they were originally together. Like that's not really what's going on here, but that would actually make more sense if that was the case where it's like, okay, well like.
Craig: If we're going to, like, have these same characters playing these
Ben: Well, I, I
Craig: one to one translations, then like, it would be, it would make more sense to be like, oh, well, the reason why these people look the same in this period and then 1994 is because they're like direct reincarnations of these characters from the past.
Craig: And everyone else is just kind of like around and like adding to [00:20:00] that story. But these people are directly connected through their reincarnation. Whereas I guess Tina is just imagining these people, but the magic of the witch doesn't make sense for them to do that. That's just like really nitty nitpicky,
S. E. : doesn't have any magic. That's like, she's not a witch.
Craig: Well, I know, but that sort of, well,
S. E. : not
S. E. : saying that explains
Ben: I won't
Craig: I mean, obviously there is some
Craig: level of magic. There's some level of magic. There's some level of magic because there are undead people that have been chasing them for the last two movies
Jeremy: I feel like there's
S. E. : the witch.
Jeremy: some amount of ambivalence, I think, as to whether there's any magic involved with Sarah Fier and her whole deal,
Craig: right. Sorry.
S. E. : It's a good film. I'm
Ben: Well, she's clearly a, well, no,
S. E. : there are some rules.
Ben: got the ability to transmit her memories through her remains. That's clearly an
S. E. : That's her
Ben: she
Craig: right. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying
Jeremy: not all have
Craig: some level of supernatural thing to happen if, if Dina is able to like mind meld with the, [00:21:00] the 1666 memories of this person.
Ben: well, here's the,
Craig: some, there's some magic that's directly involved Sarah Fier and Yeah.
Ben: believe every single generation of good family member has looked identical to Ashley Zuckerman.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I just wanted to say, like, about the, I mean, before we leave the, the racist side of things behind on this, like, I do think it's important to note that, like, especially in a story like this, being race blind is not the same thing as being not racist or anti racist, because, like, you know, It, it, especially like in the current time period, like you'd have to consider the ways in which.
Jeremy: The lives of black people are different and just throwing them in, like, throwing these characters in there is sort of not acknowledging that in a way that is, is less acceptable here than, say, in Rogers and Hammerstein's Cinderella, where it's like, sure, whatever race, it's a fairy tale, it doesn't matter.
Jeremy: This, it's like, oh,
S. E. : and I [00:22:00] think even more importantly, it's a, it's actually a missed opportunity because many of the women who were. burned for being witches were black. They were practicing African based traditions. And that was the witchcraft that, that got them killed. That's actually, I think the biggest missed opportunity is, is
S. E. : if she had been a black woman, then there would be that deeper resonance.
S. E. : And if they could, if they had the, the spine and the reach to actually deal with the race issues, and we're going to use issues specifically because it's a fucking movie, like, then you. You would have something really powerful. To me, that always felt like the weakest part of it, was like, Dina
S. E. : wouldn't just be like any other
S. E. : person. That experience isn't the same. If
Ben: weak part of the movie, to me what stands out is I don't feel like this movie did a good job explaining why that division between Shadyside and Sunnyvale exists.
Craig: that's kind [00:23:00] of what I wondered too. Like, I've been kind of wondering that for like the whole series as far as like re watching it. It's like,
Craig: yeah, why is Shadyside the one that's being like so punished for all of this? And I guess it's like, I guess maybe it's with the
S. E. : you actually want to know, I can totally, I think I can answer it.
S. E. : I'm not saying it's a good answer, but I
Craig: because I know yeah, yeah, you know,
Ben: for Yeah, I think it comes with like, yeah, kind of with the ending with like the cop or whatever, like
S. E. : Yeah, so he, he's doing, he's like, I'm important, and I moved to the woods, and I'm making a life happen, and my wife died, my kid died, and I'm a white man, and no one ever has felt pain like I feel, so I'm gonna conjure the motherfuckin’ devil. So he conjures the devil, but he wants to punish the town that didn't help him.
S. E. : So the town of Union is the devil. Shadyside.
S. E. : Where he lives, that's Sunnyvale. So Sunnyvale prospers, like where his little homestead is, Sunnyvale prospers and he punishes Shadyside, which is where Union stood.
Emily: yeah, and that's, that's the [00:24:00] place, he's, his devil conjuring is focused on shady sides, so it's not, and after, you know, generations and generations of devil shit, you know, he's got, like,
S. E. : Insert occult practice.
Emily: whatever. Like, I mean, this is, this is double shit. Like, what he's doing is double shit. There's no, I mean, he says Abaddon, he says Ahriman, which I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
Emily: He says Satan, you know, and Lucifer in separate. It's all Andra, Andramon, Hadamon.
Craig: Yeah, yeah.
Emily: Um,
Ben: this is where
Emily: the rurumon.
Craig: Gure, Ruman. You know,
Ben: where I kind of wanted to
S. E. : Olly oxen free.
Ben: a bit of like an armchair quarterback, where I wish it was a thing where it was like, he had taken a portion of the villagers out with him to this other land that he thought was better, but he's fucking up and he's getting them all killed and he's like, okay, now I'm doing Devils, like, Be big shit and save this whole like, sub community that [00:25:00] went with me even if I have to fuck over everybody else.
Ben: I, I think a little bit's lost in him just being like
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: by himself
Jeremy: let me, um, let me do a, try and do a very quick recap of what happens in this which is basically gonna be the same thing I think I did for Alicia last night, because she fell asleep and then was like, no, you
Emily: happened?
Jeremy: me. So like, okay, so we get, we get this flashback to 1666. It's all sort of like reliving this, this life of Sarah Fier through Dina's eyes.
Jeremy: I will say Sarah Fier has way more swag than Dina has in like, she's walking through town with her little basket of stuff, setting up a whole, setting up this community of people that are gonna go drink and party in the woods. And every, everybody's, everybody's buddy is with Sarah Fear at this point in a way that they do not think Dina is cool.
Jeremy: But, you know, she puts all this together, they go out and they drink and do whatever it is that you do in the woods when it's 1666 and you're a teenager. Uh, and she, she, uh, does a lot of, you know, kissing, [00:26:00] uh,
Craig: berries.
Jeremy: yeah, they,
Ben: oh man. I love the scene. That was just like, these berries ain't shit. Oh, no. Again, we get, we've gone from fruits to like birds to berries, like
Emily: Yeah,
Craig: drugs in all these movies. Everybody wants to do drugs.
Ben: It was so nice having Kate back, even if Kate, it's just like, Oh, you got a druggie friend too, like, Kate? Like, Sarah Fier? Well, that's Kate, and you have a very questionably straight friend? Like, here's Simon. Simon in those pilgrim clothes, like, did not do anything to make me think, like, that he was more hetero.
S. E. : His hair made me insane though. I was like,
S. E. : why are some of these men in the wigs? But he has like his little 90s bangs in his eyes. Like that just, I was one of those inconsistencies. I'm feeling you. I feel
S. E. : everybody
Craig: know who he was. It's we, we [00:27:00] had a full movie without him. We had to like get you back to like, okay. Just like he had to stand out above
Emily: This writer.
Ben: it's the, it's the period piece test of does somebody look like they know in a period piece, do they look like they know what an iPhone is?
S. E. : That's his, that's his fucking, his face looks wrong, you know, but I, I also love the, the Kate and Dina and Sam when they're walking in the woods and they're just like talking shit like teenagers. I thought that was kind of nice and I liked like the weird sort of like. What, what is shit talking like in like 1600s and it's all about STIs still.
S. E. : And I was like, you know what, that's kind of cute. I kind of liked that. So that was like a moment that like salvaged it a bit for me. I was like, you know what, that's cute.
Ben: I, I like that, like, I like 16th, like, you know, or 17th hundreds, 17th cent Jesus fucking Christ, 17th century teenagers being teenagers, like, I
S. E. : was fun that
Ben: where 17th century [00:28:00] Simon is like, We fucking drank booze and danced, we're teenagers, what the f the fuck did we do, like, we did fucking nothing.
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah, so, okay, so, they decided to go get some, some, uh, cool berries from the widow who lives out in the woods, who does various practices, I'm sure, including abortions, it's just, has that kind of feel to it, witchcraft and abortions And, she finds, like, their cool, cool black book stuck in a box, and it's got all kinds of devil stuff, and the, the widow weirdly is like, don't, don't do that devil, the devil's close right now, you can't do devil stuff, the veil is real thin right now.
Jeremy: Um, so they leave and, uh, they go party in the woods she also at one point a pig to, her good friend, uh, what is it?
Emily: Solomon,
S. E. : It's all in good.
Emily: I have some thoughts about.
Jeremy: Who is clearly played by, uh, by the same actor as Nick Goode, the cop in the current time. [00:29:00] So, Solomon is, yes, a white guy living out in the woods whose wife and child has died because it's 1666, that's just and she's, uh, she's looking out for him and he's like, oh man. Yeah, my life sucks. And she's like, I know, I'm gonna go party in the woods. So she goes and parties in the woods and she, uh, makes out with the preacher's daughter. Nothing could possibly go wrong there.
Ben: Man, that's a mood.
Jeremy: yeah. Uh, the preacher's daughter is, in this case, I think the one that's, pushing it.
Jeremy: she, uh, initiates, I will
Ben: we establish that, uh, the preacher's daughter is played by Sam?
Ben: So we get that? Just,
Jeremy: So she is Hannah Miller rather than
Ben: in case the historical parallels
Craig: They're both very
Ben: could possibly have gone over your head.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: other, shit starts going wrong, and, uh, their pig eats the piglets, and all the fruit goes bad, all, all your real classic, you know, witch stuff from, from any [00:30:00] history book you might have read and of course, so now the crazy guy that everybody hated is, uh, talking about how there's witches, and everybody's like, yeah, cool, that guy's definitely right now And, uh, so there's a lot of, like, this stuff going on, and then the, uh, the preacher locks himself in the church with a bunch of the children, and eventually they're, Solomon busts in and finds that the preacher is up there speaking in, Devil language or speaking to himself or just muttering whatever and all of he has murdered all the children including Sarah's brother
Ben: Which is a mercy because as much as I love Josh in the present, I'm just like, he has the fucking silliest pilgrim accents in the whole cast.
Jeremy: Yeah, and it really exacerbates the question. I had in the first one, which was like how fucking old is Josh? I don't I don't know what age he's supposed to be Because in this one, it's like oh, yeah, he goes to Children's Church. I was like, what good age is he supposed to
Ben: I always interpreted
S. E. : was Sadie Sink. She was in there, you know, as like a little kid.[00:31:00]
Ben: interpreted them as being like 15. Oh,
Jeremy: Yeah, there's somewhere between 15 and fucking 5 in this. I don't know, it's, it's bizarre.
Ben: in 1666, I don't know, but we know Josh is at least like a freshman in high school, in 94.
Jeremy: yeah, they go to the same school, so either, you know,
Ben: And we know Sadie is in her last year, Sadie Sink was in her last year as a camper.
Ben: In I just met,
S. E. : I met in the 1666.
Ben: Oh, they're met in 1666. It's like
S. E. : who, like they're fuckin 12 in this movie.
S. E. : she's eight and a half, she's,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Ben: Oh god, this fuckin preacher though. Fuckin the just pile of fuckin ripped out eyeballs on the floor. The kid's just eyeless, like, in the pews. And this guy just standing in front, just like, tappin’-
Emily: Tapping his hook, his eye gouging hook,
Ben: scene. I am from the south, so is this not what your guys churches are like?
Emily: Well, we do a lot more, like, goat stuff [00:32:00] here.
Jeremy: Goat stuff. Got it.
Emily: Yeah, there's a lot of goat stuff here at least in the churches. I don't usually go to church in a building, so I can't tell you about
Emily: that. I don't know if there's a lot of eye gouging in the buildings, but
Jeremy: Yeah. I mean, our pile of eyes is always pretty fresh.
Jeremy: Yeah. Unfortunately that's over. It just, he gets, he gets stabbed with a good hay fork and, uh,
Emily: really good Hayford made out of wicker.
Ben: I, I think they could rename it, it doesn't need to be American Horror Story, it's just America, colon, Horror are we saying pitchfork? Is that what we're talking about? Or what's a, what's a hayfork? I'm sorry. I'm
Emily: It's the same thing.
Craig: Oh, okay. I was like, I, I, I, I'm a, I'm, I'm one of them, uh, city folk. You know, I'm a, I'm a city mouse.
Jeremy: I just wanted to,
Jeremy: I wanted to really uh, I, I talk real fast and I, and I just want to get my money and I, and I'm all about like just
S. E. : wearing my little suit.
Craig: I'm just living in the, you know, the fast, fast world of the city.
Craig: I would never
Ben: I just defer to Jeremy on farm stuff.
Emily: Listen, the, we know, [00:33:00] we know it's a hay fork and you know why we know it's a hay fork? Because a pitchfork can go in pitch and therefore it is metal. A hay fork goes in hay and it, and if it goes, if that thing went into fire, it would have probably burnt, but it was good enough to like, skewer a man.
Jeremy: apparently it's very good at stabbing people. It does not seem
Craig: That's like
Jeremy: be that good, but my parents had some of that 80s patio furniture and that used to stab the shit out of me. So, who knows,
Emily: like, that's made out of plastic and lead and stuff.
Ben: Yeah, don't worry, you were just getting stabbed with like, asbestos, you're fine.
Jeremy: I don't know, my parents had the horrible wicker patio furniture. I'm
Emily: That stuff is coated in asbestos, I
Jeremy: not sure. Yeah.
Ben: that thing,
Ben: will, that thing that thing is practically just lacquered in pure gasoline.
S. E. : the thing that bothers me. On the rewatch that didn't bother me the first time through is how underutilized pretty much every killer feels, except for maybe Tommy in the second movie, like Tommy, I feel like at least he's there, the whole fucking film. [00:34:00] And so he is actually frightening. I,
S. E. : I'm like the preacher. I, I had no fear.
Ben: Who was the guy in that crazy pyramid head fuckin
Emily: right?
Jeremy: part
Ben: WHAT WAS THAT MASK?
Jeremy: part of the unfortunate thing about the way they handle all of the, the, like, skull mask and nightwing and, Uh, the preacher who are all the ones that are the main villains in these stories Is it those are the ones that have no personality like very specifically when they get when they get Possessed they don't talk.
Jeremy: They don't have any one liners. There's no like
S. E. : they don't sing a creepy
Jeremy: there's no real suspense Yeah, I was like what I don't know why we didn't get the ruby Story
S. E. : Little kid with the bat,
Jeremy: way more interested the little
Emily: little kid.
Jeremy: I like the little kid with the bat being a weird anonymous thing where it's just
Ben: oh,
Jeremy: what is his deal?
S. E. : but he's threatening because
Ben: that would've been some real, like, The Omen type shit.
Emily: Well, I
S. E. : And if we're doing kids, we got to do kids of the evil too. Like, you
Emily: yeah, [00:35:00] I love that there's the kid. I love that
Emily: little slugger kid. It's like the kid in, um, dark city when you have like the weird aliens and then there's the one that's like the little kid and that one's the one that you don't fuck with. Like all these other ones, like there's the old white man, young white man, regular white man, you know, they're all white men, but like, you know, it's like they're saying something about stuff.
Emily: But then there's like this one. That was a kid and he was like the most fucked up one and I'm like, yeah, that it's like in fucking Hellraiser spoilers Where in Hellbound the fucking Cenobite with the clattering teeth turns out to be a little kid It's like all the whole time this fucking Cenobite this little kid Anyway,
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I just
Emily: weird little kid.
Jeremy: I gotta figure out whatever, whoever that good kid was that did that one, that guy was really fucked up, but he
S. E. : That's what I
Jeremy: I'm gonna write this little kid's name on here.
S. E. : which, which, which sick fuck did this one? That's what I thought.
Emily: The
Jeremy: cause all the other ones I assume, like, there's somebody they hated, somebody, [00:36:00] some girl they wanted to get back at or
Ben: assume this was, like, The fucked up, like, dead public domain Dennis the Menace Stereotype movie, where this is, like, The neighbor was, like, this was, like, Mayor Good getting revenge on, like, this shitty
S. E. : Okay, that actually totally lines up with what I was thinking, which was
S. E. : like, I bet almost every single one of these people was like, neurodivergent. And like, they pissed them off because they didn't fit in, so they're like, oh. Make that guy a murderer. Everyone will believe it. That's what
S. E. : went through my head.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: there was some of
Emily: that going
Ben: we had seen Oh, reason for, for young good to have enmity against Tommy early on in the second movie,
Emily: Yeah, there was this is the main complaint that I have for a lot of the movies is that there's like this really good kernels of ideas that they kind of don't quite get to
Jeremy: It feels really first drafting. And I, I think that's a lot of my complaints, that was a lot of my complaints with the first movie,
S. E. : [00:37:00] Ah, Netflix.
Jeremy: It's real, it feels real first idea, first idea. Um, and it's just like, and yeah, there's a lot of things that it's like, ah, if we just take a couple more passes at this, it could have been good.
Jeremy: I mean, it could have
S. E. : put it in maybe better hands? Like, I'm not trying to hate on the director, writers, but like, either more drafts, or like, These are, I think there's some really fucking solid ideas in here.
Craig: No, I think this
S. E. : as a creative person, when I watch this, I feel creative juices because I'm like, Oh, you could use that idea and do this cool thing.
S. E. : But
Craig: I mean,
S. E. : went, they went, you could use this idea and then throw 35, 000 other ideas on top of
S. E. : it. And then that's a thing.
Craig: I want to say something just like, I think that like, especially considering like, we've already talked about like a few of the different things that like were like missed opportunities. I think one of like the biggest ones that could have been like a lot more like prevalent is like, okay, we're talking about like [00:38:00] generations of like systematic power that have been like, essentially deals with the devil and, and like the horrors that have been inflicted, inflicted upon this like poor and marginalized community in order to, you know, sustain the, like, wealth and privilege of this other community, particularly by People who are within law enforcement and government, like, ah, maybe we could have like, yeah, definitely could have done a
Emily: about race.
Craig: definitely could have been like,
Ben: also just the fact that like
Craig: Definitely could have dug into that portion a little bit more
Craig: for sure.
Ben: of good just let the massacre happen. It's not
Craig: Right, exact. Oh.
Ben: it could be, I'm going to kill. Look, I, I got it. Like, it sucks that somebody has died, but I'm going to kidnap a person, tie him up, Put them in my basement, give their soul to the devil, and then [00:39:00] just shoot them in the head as soon as they're possessed.
Ben: No,
S. E. : No,
Ben: just like, do what you do, I'll
S. E. : the problem is that that doesn't
S. E. : work. They have to let them create a massacre because the blood of the people they kill is what feeds the devil.
Ben: Oh, yeah, yeah,
Craig: Yeah, yeah. But even still,
S. E. : up!
Craig: yeah, but, yeah, even still, it's, like, no one in, like, the sunny, sunny, side, side of things is, like, Hey, like, maybe we should, like, not be dicks to the people of, like, Canadian culture. Shady side or like maybe we should like not be like terrible human beings with like the community that like not only has less than us, but it's also like dealing with like this improportionate level of violence
Ben: Eagleton
Craig: systematically like ingrained like these systematically like and very purposefully ingrained like Excess, like, exceeding violence that is happening towards these communities, like, there's just, it is like, there's, it's right there.
Craig: It's [00:40:00] right there to like, talk about like, you know, like the, you know, the, you know, quote unquote, Detroit's and Chicago's of the world of like, oh, well, like, why is there so much like violence in these communities? It's like, well, let's think about like the systematic level of oppression that has led to people like.
Craig: having no other recourse than to, like, first of all, deal with, like, extra legal, you know, means of income, and then also having to deal with the fact that, like, based off of, like, the generations of, like, trauma and, like, lack of resources and withholding of resources, like, why there might be a little bit more like levels to things other than just like the quote unquote intracommunal aka black on black if we're gonna like just like put it plain violence you know it's like there's so much more that could have been done [00:41:00] with this I definitely feel that
Emily: And I, that's absolutely why I think like, you know, of all of this is, this is not a subtle. story by any means, you know, there's no reason not to talk about race.
Craig: right
Emily: don't we just talk about race?
Ben: that it's so unsubtle makes it all the more disappointing when it ultimately doesn't have anything to say.
Craig: right
Jeremy: it's like, the really interesting stuff is like written on street signs as you're flying by in this story Where is the you know, the stuff that they really like park and want you to look at is like, okay sure It's another you know slumber. It's another camp murder movie. I know this I got
Craig: I think yeah and I think that's one of those things that happens a lot when you know, particularly like white people try to like create these types of stories where it's like, we want to have like a message. And I've said this before, like online, where I feel like white people, [00:42:00] especially within like fantasy and science fiction, lack the imagination to imagine systems beyond the ones that benefit them.
Craig: And I think that that's why a lot of like fantasy and science fiction that is written by white people fall into the same. types of like reinforcing the status quo that they come close or they or they approach like trying to critique but then at the end of the day they also say like oh well I guess this is like the best that we can have and at the end of the day it was maybe like a few bad apples or at the end of the day it was kind of like these like one or two people instead of instead of like actually like moving towards the like end of the actual systems within those fantasy stories where you can do whatever the fuck you want like where it's like you could do whatever you want because it's not real so like just like Quentin Tarantino decided to like Kill the fucking Nazis and Hitler [00:43:00] in Inglourious Bastards.
Craig: Like, that type of thing could be happening, like, you know, and not to give Quentin Tarantino any additional due because again, that dude, like, you know, whatever, but like, that's one example of just like, oh, hey, like, imagine if, like, More white people took that when, like, not even white people. Imagine if more stories, like, were able to be told on a mainstream level that, like, had that, like, in mind of, like, we don't have to imagine things, like, going to, like, a new status quo that is, like, marginally, slightly, just, like, a tiny bit better for, like, the people who were Like marginalized, we can have a radically different world at the end of these stories.
Craig: And there are, you know, authors who like are creating those stories, obviously, but again, they are very often not getting the level of recognition and the level of exposure to tell those stories. [00:44:00] We should be getting more of those stories. And the only reason why we're not is because, you know, the mainstream is very scared of those stories becoming a part of the collective consciousness.
Emily: Yeah. Well,
Craig: think we need more, more of
Emily: this, if this movie, I feel like all the horror, like the absolute, just horrible shit that was happening to these people, both, you know, of, of any race, especially now in the, in the shady, like, in the 1994 bit. If this was all based off of some, like, a lot of racism, I feel it's a lot more deserved than just this anecdotal thing about one guy being shitty to one lady, you know?
Emily: Like, I feel, because they're already talking about a
Emily: systemic problem.
Ben: you know, she says the town immediately assumed her guilt, or just rushed to use the, you know, to throw queer women into the pyre, or to the noose, to sass, you know, their own grudges, and, you know, the town Yeah, worthy of its punishment there.
Ben: I mean, we do get the scene [00:45:00] where it kind of just ends up being a red herring of a scene, but it's a real, uh, fuck it we ball where, uh, Sarah's like, They want a witch? How about I become a fucking witch then?
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean we're almost at that part. So like let's
Craig: that, that, yeah, exactly. and as many issues as I had with, you know, Lovecraft Country. I think it would have been an interesting progression to see that, like, next season of things, of like, oh, well, like, what does happen now that, like, the black people have access to magic and have removed that magic that white people got from black people initially used against black people and now they don't have it anymore and the black people have regained control of it and I think like that level of things like of like yeah I’m gonna be a fucking witch I’m going to like take the power back that I not only deserve but I fucking [00:46:00] created - I created this power. I am the origin of this power, and you stole it from me, and it's been stolen from my people for generations.
Craig: And so now I'm going to take it back and I'm actually going to use it against you because you don't deserve to have it. And not only do you deserve to have you, not only do you not deserve to have it, but based off of the generations of like violence that you have perpetrated against me, I will decide what your judgment will be after like regaining this power.
S. E. : And they
Craig: so many, there's so few things where that actually happens. I think the most prominent example for me is like Avatar The Last Airbender, where there's just like so many levels of just like neoliberalism that just pervade that show, where
Ben: don't let,
Craig: we are, and it's not even like that, it's not even just that, but it's like the, the, the trope that I have in mind always is like, We have a group of marginalized and oppressed [00:47:00] people who are fighting for their liberation.
Craig: And the thing that happens in almost every mainstream, like, portrayal of those people is there's a moment where they go, quote unquote, too far. And then they become the villains after having very clear and justified reasons for doing the things that they do. But it's portrayed like, oh, well, like, usually it's like, oh, they accidentally, like, kill someone who's like, we're like seen as like innocent by the audience or there's one person who like murders the wrong person and then the entire organization and everything that these people have like dealt with becomes completely null and void their oppression comes becomes null and void because now they've gone too far and we're supposed to like switch on a dime as the audience and say now these are the villains now these are the bad guys now they've done too much and gone too far Or they, or it's like, if they want to be good guys, they have to get to the main bad [00:48:00] guy at the end and say, We're not gonna kill you, because We would, that would make us as bad as you, like, we can't kill you, the person who has been behind the genocide, who has been directing the genocide, who has been the main perpetrator of the genocide.
Craig: We can't kill you Hitler because that would make us as bad as you know. Fucking kill Hitler. Like,
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and there's this, there's this sort of weird thing and I think it's just very, it's all over like the main, you know, white driven storylines, these, these, uh, these tropes and fiction where you, especially from like white creators where they're like, actually, this, this is, this is really fucked up.
Emily: And I'm kind of the problem, but I don't want to, like, make, I don't want to, like, blame people too badly. I don't want to, you know, and even now I'm, like, parsing my words on it, but, like, the point is that, like, [00:49:00] as someone who is really, like, when you are someone who is really familiar with a lot of this, this history that absolutely is unfair and unjust, you know, and if we're going to be just about it, then, you know, there's going to be some bloodletting.
Emily: People are gonna have to kill people if things are gonna be even, you know? And
Ben: speaking of the bloodshed, Jeremy, what's it, Jeremy, what's
Ben: going
Craig: the people who, the people who gain power violently are never going to release that power peacefully.
Emily: Yeah.
Craig: it comes down to.
Emily: And then there's
Craig: the people who oppress through violence are never going to stop doing that through peaceful means.
Craig: It's just not the way that it works.
Jeremy: Speaking of oppressing through violence, we, we get to the point where like, all this, witch related stuff is going on and, uh, the, the town has a meeting about it and they decide that of course it's a lesbian's fault because the lesbians were lesbianing. So like they, [00:50:00] they, the lesbians decide to run away and of course, useless girlfriend is as useless in 1666 as she is in the 90s and immediately like falls down and is like, leave me.
Ben: I met that none of the homophobic villagers went and said like, it's a cunnilingus catastrophe. She,
Emily: That would be Kaling.
Jeremy: Yeah. so she of course, uh, comes back and
Ben: she dives on the devil's taco.
Jeremy: uh, Sarah
Emily: was painful.
S. E. : they're known for having tacos in 1666 in Ohio. They're very much known for knowing the taco.
Emily: It is the rap of the folded dumpling, I don't know. There's a whole YouTube channel about weird pilgrim food, and I don't really know it, so
Jeremy: Yeah. Anyway,
Ben: Welcome
Jeremy: out into the woods and immediately comes back and solid snakes her way through the bushes. Runs back in as talking to her now. Man called up girlfriend who's [00:51:00] like, you should go away. And she's like, they're, they're going to, you know, hang me as a witch. And Sarah is like, well, if they want a witch, I'll give them a witch.
Jeremy: And she decided she's gonna go to the go to the, the widow and go get some, uh, black magic. And of course, the, the widow's dead and the black magic book is gone. Somebody is
Ben: given, I've given this movie a lot of shit for musical choices over the last two episodes which is ironic because now when we get to the 17th century the score is fucking great, and especially in the scene in the church, the music, I, I want to give a compliment now because the music in that church scene is fantastic.
Ben: There's some great music in this movie when it can get out of its own goddamn way and not do obnoxious needle drops.
Emily: Yeah. Which will buckle up.
Ben: There's gonna be one. There's only one really bad one, but it's, uh, Hoo, Hoo
Jeremy: I do have to say, [00:52:00] like, this scene only exists for her to deliver that they want a witch, I'm going to give them a witch thing, because she, they literally do the, like, third person stealth video game roadie run of her through the middle of the town for no reason, so that she can come out of this conversation.
Jeremy: And then she, uh, you know, she runs off to find , the widow, but she's been murdered and her book has been stolen, so there's only one place left that she can go. She goes back to see Solomon, uh, her buddy, And, uh, while she's talking to Solomon and telling her all, telling him all these things about how there is somebody doing witchcraft, and the widow is dead, and the book that she knew about that was there is missing, Solomon's like, Wow, wow, so, that's crazy, man, does anybody else know about this?
Jeremy: Uh,
S. E. : crazy.
Jeremy: you told anybody else about this? It's like the most
S. E. : I believe you.
S. E. : That's a line he says.
S. E. : I
Jeremy: his He's got his Owen [00:53:00] Wilson wow
Ben: was anyone else seeing this book and confused why a book from the 17th century had KKK skeletons in
S. E. : I wrote that fucking down. I fucking wrote it down. I
S. E. : wrote it down.
Emily: so that's like a thing, like the Knights Templar,
Ben: skeletons are a thing? Oh no!
Emily: yeah, well, KKK members die and they become skeletons, the end.
Ben: I didn't really think about
S. E. : Not quickly enough.
Emily: like, if only there were more of them, but no, like, the conical hat thing is like an Eastern Europe thing, and then there's a lot of memoirs. That was, the Knights Templar, but they were just bankers, and
Jeremy: Anyway. Solomon is still in love with her enough to, uh, be like, Hey, go, go hide in the other room. While I get rid of these other people who are looking to kill you. So she decides to climb in the cupboard and ends up in an underground passageway that we've seen somewhere before. Um, and goes down the underground passage and finds all sorts of shit, uh, devil shit going on down here, [00:54:00] including the book, which is mysteriously down here.
Jeremy: Everything that she saw from the book and Solomon's like, oh, hey about that. You were like me, right? You see that like we didn't get what we were promised and I’m seizing that and so you're like totally with me on this Right, we're gonna like get married and stuff
S. E. : You get it. You're a lesbian. I killed a bunch of people. It's the
S. E. : same. And she's like,
Jeremy: You being a lesbian and me killing people is the same thing. So let's get married. I
S. E. : This is the only solution.
Jeremy: He's missing one thing in there
Emily: She's like, you fucking killed my brother, you asshole.
Jeremy: and he's like I didn't mean to okay. I
S. E. : come on,
Jeremy: I just knew that some people were gonna die. Um,
Ben: Oh my god, he goes like, he goes like, oh, his explanation is like, nobody's innocent. They get mad at you for being gay, they get mad at me for killing them, clearly they, you
Ben: know, the
Craig: the same [00:55:00] thing.
S. E. : He
Emily: are kids.
S. E. : he says, literally, he, he goes, who is innocent? My wife and I look at each other and go, Children.
Jeremy: children. Children are the ones.
S. E. : Children!
Jeremy: This guy has missed some, this guy
Craig: No, I mean, like, what's worse, like being gay or being a murderer? Like, come on,
S. E. : He's like, think about it, Sarah.
S. E. : Fucking think
Craig: yeah, like, let's, let's, have some sense. Like, let's just, you know.
S. E. : Come
S. E. : on.
Jeremy: So, anyway, she, she, uh, runs off through the halls and is running away from him. Ends up in the, uh, the bathroom cavern, which is not yet a bathroom
S. E. : She is back in the shithole, but actually it's the first time someone was in the shithole,
S. E. : so
Jeremy: a shithole yet.
Ben: Yes,
S. E. : pre shithole?
Ben: Hull.
Craig: just a whole.
Emily: it's whole with weird demon heart in it.
Jeremy: The
Craig: I can relate. I can relate.
S. E. : those are different chambers, right?
S. E. : The shithole is like, next to the chamber that has the,
S. E. : like, demon
Emily: one's the stomach [00:56:00] and one's the heart.
Jeremy: Yeah, this is, this is
Jeremy: the stomach of the demon.
Ben: they never pulled out the counselor whose head got chopped off and he fell down, like, into the shithole cavern. Did they ever pull his body out?
Emily: Well, they haven't been down there for a while. I, we haven't seen, but it's
Jeremy: I don't know, I mean, presumably if all
Jeremy: of
Craig: this point.
Jeremy: I guess, I guess probably Nick Goode went down and pulled him out just so that he wouldn't have to explain all the devil stuff he's doing to the paramedics. Does not matter. Yep.
Jeremy: She gets in a fight there, uh, gets her hand stabbed through, uh, she gets her wrist stabbed through and leaves her hand there.
Jeremy: And then continues to run off to try and get away from, uh, from Solomon. Ends up in the, uh, the hole that's under the nurse's office in the future. Uh, which is currently under the church. Kicks her way through that, which is tradition, I guess. That's the only way to get through that, is to kick your way through.
Jeremy: She
S. E. : They were like, ah, symmetry, they know what
S. E. : [00:57:00] art is.
Jeremy: she finally runs out the front door of the church and is just about clear, sees her, her girlfriend lying in front of the well, and then Solomon runs up behind her just like, Found her! Found the witch! Got it right here. Did it guys. Not that he was chasing her to I don't know, marry her, whatever, convince her to marry him.
Jeremy: and so, uh, they, they take him to the hanging tree and Sarah is, finally, they're, they're gonna be hanged and they ask him to confess and Sarah's finally like, you know what? I did it. I, I did it. I used magic on her to make her kiss me. Uh, that's not, she's fine.
Jeremy: She didn't do any of it. It's all me. And so, uh, Seraph here gets hanged and not her, her girlfriend, Hannah Miller. And in, in doing so, she curses Solomon and says that she's going to follow him as a, like a shadow forever, that he is, the truth is going to come out eventually. Not today, not tomorrow.
Jeremy: But soon, and for the rest of your life. No, wait, that's a different Yeah.
Jeremy: Louis. [00:58:00] Anyway, I feel like you can't say the words maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow in a movie. Like, that's not, you, just stick
Emily: It's illegal.
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: like, anyway, so now we're getting sort of our, our 90s, uh, where we were finding out how these things are tied together, that the Body was missing because the
S. E. : Jeremy, you missed the most important part of flashing to the 90s, which is now we've entered. Let me see if I can do it. It's Fear Street, Part 3, 1666, 1994,
Craig: Heart.
S. E. : 2.
Craig: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : think we just have to, you must know that or you'll get lost. It's a
S. E. : very complex, it's a complex trilogy. We don't want you to get lost.
Ben: it's
Ben: some real
Jeremy: a
Jeremy: quadrilogy.
Ben: final season. Part four, part two.
Emily: Well, and this is, and this is like the first [00:59:00] hour of the movie is 1666. The second, like 40 minutes of the movie is 1994. So when you go in there and you're like, all right, let's go. It's our time and time. And then they're like, we're going to fucking speed around this shit.
Ben: So before we head to, before we head to part two, I want to ask, like,
Jeremy: I do want to say that this part is maybe, I think maybe the best five minutes of the movie, which is like, where they're like, okay, here's all the things that we, they're tied together somehow. We just want you to know that like, oh yeah, that weird moss that was on the crown, like on her head when they moved her body to this other spot, which is where, why she's secretly buried over here and not over here, that like, it's actually not the bad guys that moved the body.
Jeremy: It's, you know, the, the good guys who I guess were looking out for Sarah
Emily: The moss was in the fucking, the moss was in the cave.
Jeremy: But she also had the, she's got the moss on her,
Craig: Yeah, it was on the crown.
Jeremy: on the crown, which is why it's on
S. E. : was in the cave and it's in the forest,
S. E. : right? That's like the two places and her [01:00:00] hand was in the cave, right? That's where her blood
Ben: yes, so this, the
S. E. : it's like where her blood
S. E. : spills. found it Okay.
S. E. : It's also at the foot of the tree, I'm remembering, so it's
S. E. : actually three places it is and that's where all her blood and body parts are.
Emily: Yeah.
Craig: like, it's like where the elder blood was spilled, you know?
Emily: Yeah, exactly.
S. E. : She gets
Jeremy: This is also the part where it feels most like a television series, uh, where it's like, yeah, all these things that we, we did, we're paying them off now. Three movies later. It all really does all tie together. Colson. It's like, yeah, it's, it's a good moment where like, You, you kind of forget a lot of the other weirdness of, you know, the, the things that you didn't like so much about the first two and a half movies, you're like, Oh no, hold on.
Jeremy: This is, this is interesting. Um, and they, you know, they go through the generations of good boys who were actually evil. And actually wrote all these names on this thing. And they don't, they don't write them. I guess they just
Ben: Just the, the, the legacy of
Craig: Yeah. And it's [01:01:00] like, show it like the same actor, but like, and like different period
Ben: Oh, it's great,
Craig: like attire. Yeah.
Ben: like big
S. E. : The mustache! And glasses, right? When the
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. But definitely like, yeah.
S. E. : must be I
Craig: Yeah. Definitely
Craig: given like seventies porn
Emily: Yeah. I
Craig: know,
Ben: 1978 actor back for like one shot of him. Yellin out the camp night wing day counselor's name.
Craig: yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah. I know Ben had some things they wanted to say about this, but I will say the one thing that ticked me off a little bit, like, they pay it off a little, but I don't feel like they go far enough, is that Ziggy Berman is the chillest fucking person in the world, because if I found out that the guy who, like, had been pretending to be my friend and looking out for me for 30 years was actually the gaslighting murderer of my sister, I wouldn't wait to go to the fucking mall.
Jeremy: I would just go kill him. Like,
Ben: Well,
Jeremy: plan. He doesn't know that I know. I'm just gonna go kill him.
Ben: [01:02:00] Well, this plan, elaborate plan, they make this whole plan that's dependent on her being close enough to drop a bucket of blood paint on him. At that point, just stab
Craig: Just kill him!
Ben: stab him. Just have a knife on you! Just stab him!
Emily: Well, the bad guys will go away when you kill them, that's the plan at least, so like, just be like, Hey, I really need to talk to you, and this has nothing to do with anything involving kids or anything, I just, this shit's going down, I need to talk to you,
Emily: and then, you
Emily: know, don't bring your gun.
Ben: the killers on him. But if you, if the plan involves you being in stabbing range of him, do the stabbing!
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, cause there, I mean, there are two things in that, that I was like, if, if I was in Ziggy's shoes. I would absolutely murder this man. Like there's no, no plan, no anything else. I'm grabbing the closest sharp object and I'm going to murder this [01:03:00] man. Like, there's no, no revenge question about it. Like this guy is dead.
Jeremy: 'cause the murdering my sister is bad enough, but then pretending to save me and gaslight me for 30 years. is like, at that point I'm just like, Nope. One of
S. E. : also think, I also think it's a, a I'm going to venture a position of privilege to know that you can be as strong as him and that he
Jeremy: There are
S. E. : easily overpower you. I agree, but you know what happens when women try to leave men, right? Like
S. E. : they, they murder
Jeremy: she leave him. I'm just suggesting
Jeremy: she kill
S. E. : all I'm saying is you, you started, you said her only job was to appear traumatized on screen and now you're mad at her for not being, for being too traumatized. I'm just saying, I think it's reasonable that she wouldn't go straight to killing him. I think it's very reasonable. Do I think their plan makes any fucking sense? No. But that [01:04:00] piece, I disagree.
Emily: I'm a hundred percent with you on there, because like, you know, even when they did kill him, and he was dead in the bottom, like, there was no evidence of this except for a dead cop, like, how does this shake out. And the only way is that all of the like, you know, I'm rubber, you're glue magic
S. E. : Yes,
S. E. : exactly.
Emily: And so like all of, you know,
Ben: that's what it seems to
Craig: No, I think that, yeah, it's just like,
Ben: as he's dead, like, as soon, like, within minutes of Good being dead, garbage cans are just fucking demolishing into cars.
Ben: That, that was so funny. How
Ben: fucking funny was that garbage can? Not even slowing down.
Emily: yeah, the garbage truck, just like, and then these people will be like, what are these kids doing outside? Wow. Well, we're so rich. We don't care. Boom. Fucking smashed. Like, That's what
Ben: Oh my god,
Ben: I, I, I fuckin
Emily: to a cop, I will say this, there were two payoff moments that made this plan [01:05:00] worth it for me and the story, and that was one was the dude being like, you know, them rolling up to the, the janitor guy's house and they're like, hey, want to help, help us kill Sheriff Good?
Emily: And he's like, let me get my coat. Perfect, no nose. Two, and then again, you know, but there's also like, That, that in and of itself, if we're gonna be realistic, like, that guy would probably be like let's talk about, like, for real though? Like, what's going on here?
Ben: That guy has a subplot where it seems to be implied that he invents the iPod? What was going on with that,
Emily: I have no fucking clue. I have no
Ben: What was the implication of that supposed to be?
Emily: I don't
S. E. : Character is, is, is so silly. He just gets arrested in the first movie, doesn't exist really in the second movie, and then is smoking weed in the third movie. But if I think about it, relatable. That
Jeremy: I'm kind of, he's
Jeremy: kind of
Jeremy: like, there's a Jay and Silent Bob movie somewhere that he is like the star of.
Emily: Oh yeah, no, [01:06:00] he's saying Jay and Sila Bob strike back. Oh, sorry. I thought you said James Bond.
Jeremy: no,
Jeremy: Jay and Silent Bob. He's the Jay and Silent Bob of this film.
Emily: There's, the second, the second moment was just having all of the killers fight each other. That was really rad. Like,
S. E. : I did Like,
Ben: oh yeah, I, oh my god, the fuckin WWE style, the chair! Battle Royale, like, that was great.
S. E. : That was really fun. That was actually one of the moments where I felt like, Oh, I wish I knew these killers more. Like I wish I wanted, I wanted to feel the buy in and the outrage of like the specificity of what they were. Cause they had all these stories, but again, I felt like so many of them fell flat.
S. E. : Like they just didn't, they didn't come together enough, but that moment was still nice.
Emily: I Yeah. That's like, I, that's what I think like this definitely again, could have been a like limited series, like give it 10 episodes. You get like Essentially you dedicate like two each to like each [01:07:00] time period and then you have the remaining four as like maybe like backgrounds like interludes like into like the killers that are happening like in
S. E. : Yeah, so I
S. E. : love
Craig: that would be like a like I think that would be a really
S. E. : Oh, I love that idea.
Craig: been a cool way of doing this.
Emily: and then also having those killers like each of these killers representing a particular kind of murder story that people as part of the mythos. And I feel like, you know, instead of having like a Freddy versus Jason or whatever, like, you have all of these, not, not the literal killers, but the legacy, the demon that these killers have created in the minds of people.
Emily: And so, and that's what, you know, and that can be interesting symbolically, where you have. These, these killers literally being resurrected by magic, but because of the, you know, the atrocities that people keep doing to each other and, kind of mimics real life in the way that, you know, you have copycat killers and things like that.
Emily: But then having somebody like sending these killers after [01:08:00] people that are just like cartoon trope killers is really an interesting idea with the magic and then having the, then like the, the, their victims using that magic to turn the killers. First against each other and then against the wielder of the, you know, against the villain.
Emily: It's really great. It's a really great payoff. But only if you really have these killers set up, like the tropes of these killers set up. in a little, in more of a, a coherent way, cause like, the only thing that we really have is one is Jason and one is Ghostface from Scream, and then, you know, the other ones are sort of like generic, like, one is sort of kinda Ed Gein and one is a kid.
Jeremy: I feel like the, the thing that would really be a great payoff is to do something where like, those guys actually get their revenge to some extent? Because like, I mean, it's fu all the people that died, that's fucked up, right? Those people got killed and that's terrible. But like, those people in particular got their lives [01:09:00] taken from them, got turned into murderers and forced to kill their friends.
Jeremy: And like, that's never addressed. That's never like, Hey, that's the most fucked up thing that
Ben: it seems like their souls and bodies and very essences are being held forever as the eternal, just like, attack dogs of the good
Jeremy: And also that, that, that, that attack dog set up is just like Satan being like, hold on, hold on, hold on. We got a good thing going with this pact. I'm not letting this get screwed up. So I'm going to send, I'm gonna send all the zombies out.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: That's not like, that's not part of the deal that good makes.
Ben: I mean, that was part of the twist, is that it's good who doesn't like when the bones get wet. Sarah's all about her bones getting wet.
Jeremy: Sarah loves
Craig: yeah as we like yeah again like I said you know just Very lesbian
S. E. : In true lesbian fashion, yes, exactly, exactly.
Jeremy: it's actually the men that get upset when the lesbian's bones get wet. So, you know,
Emily: Yeah,
Craig: Because they're not the ones wedding [01:10:00] them,
Craig: so,
Emily: yeah, they're not getting wet bones.
Emily: And that's why they become the KKK skeletons. Ha ha ha ha ha.
S. E. : Listen, if that's not an incel argument, I don't know what is.
Jeremy: And I, I do appreciate, like, we have a whole, we have a lot of things that happen in this bit with the, you know, the guns and everything, it feels like the first movie again for a little bit, there's, there's a lot more fun payoff than there is in the first one, uh, and then, you know, eventually Good does chase Dina down into the, uh, into the witch pit and, uh, she makes him touch the weird beating heart thing and suddenly he can see everybody that's died, everybody that's been killed is just appearing to him, and while he is busy freaking out, she stabs him in the fucking eye,
Ben: It's great.
Jeremy: puts it right in his eye.
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : that's what we get for not getting the vengeance that Ziggy deserved too.
S. E. : Like, so I get it, but like, I'm like, him more.
Jeremy: also, also, my favorite thing I forgot [01:11:00] to mention here, is he does stab
Jeremy: her. He stabs her, and then when, like, she survives, and her girlfriend shows up and is like, Hey, what the fuck, how are you okay? She's like, Oh, actually, I made this vest out of horror books that I've used to protect myself.
Jeremy: I
Emily: love that. It came out of absolutely nowhere, but I loved it anyway.
Ben: the,
S. E. : And it could,
Ben: book Kevlar. When did she make that? At what
Jeremy: When they were, they were in the bookstore, they were
Emily: When they were listening to Offspring and
Emily: doing their montage,
Ben: oh
S. E. : that like, the,
Jeremy: like,
Jeremy: as
Ben: Offspring, oh man, when they played Gotta Keep Them Separated, like, holy shit, like, I like the Oasis Live Forever needle drop, I actually thought that was appropriate and well done, but the Offspring needle drop, oh,
Jeremy: they can't resist, they can't
Ben: they couldn't, they couldn't help, and it comes right after another amazing soundtrack, like, song from the score.
Ben: Like, again, a fantastic [01:12:00] movie score that then takes me, like, a needle drop that takes me so far out of the movie.
Jeremy: I feel like if there is a, a thesis or a representation for this podcast, In a, in a movie, it's that, like, Kevlar made of horror books, like, that, you know, she, she uses to protect herself from the actual, the actual cop murdering, murdering cop guy.
S. E. : nice because the first movie, the horror books are what Maya Hawke's character is looking at. So it's like this nice kind of like, dink, dink, which if they could just figure out doing that with anything else.
Emily: I know! I know! I mean, they had a little bit of a callback with, like, the gate not being, you know,
S. E. : Yes, that actually, you're right. That was nice.
Emily: And I was like, oh yeah! Someone thought of, someone had a thought! Nice. Good job,
S. E. : saw it through.
Emily: Yeah. yeah, I thought it would have been cooler if the sheriff was, like, torn apart, like, all the creatures, instead of just becoming swarms of flies, they all, like, [01:13:00] or even they, they disapparate and re-apparate, like, by him and then just tear him apart.
Emily: So there's no cop body left except for, like, I don't know, him, like, with a note in his hand being, like, I did it and here's how, or something,
S. E. : And it being a hand would be so fucking perfect.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: like, there's, there's a lot of stuff at the end here that I was, I felt like, like, they could have tied some things up neatly in, in ways that would have been interesting, because I think, I, I feel like we're led to believe, like, this thing has been passed down from generation to generation.
Jeremy: Clearly, Nick doesn't have any kids to pass it on to. And it seems to me that perhaps the movie is hinting that the reason he doesn't have any kids is he is hung up on Ziggy, who, like, is, is too fucked up because of what he did to her to, like, be interested in him or any sort of relationship, and he has not found anything to move on to.
Jeremy: So, like, then, you know, he ends up, he ends up Ending his [01:14:00] family's legacy of horror by being an
Emily: yeah. Now,
Craig: Hey, you else, that's,
Ben: was kind of started by being an incel,
Emily: yeah, was
Craig: yeah, it's full circle, you know?
Emily: bothered by the fact that Queen of Air and Darkness or whatever had
S. E. : on.
Emily: an at? And I'm like, that wasn't a thing.
Craig: Yeah,
S. E. : I also feel like the, the ad, also like, that's it? That's all that,
S. E. : that whole thing is just like, a cast?
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : What's the point of, you just wanted to show me an, Oh my god, you just wanted me to see him in a chat room for the vibes? I hate it. I hate it.
Emily: And like, how, how is this person do they talk to like solid state drives? Who the fuck is talking about solid state drives?
Ben: what, again, what is this
Emily: zip dicks.
Ben: I get, I was expecting fucking, like, Steve Jobs to drive up and be like, I'm offering an internship, get over, like, come [01:15:00] work for me and invent the iPod. Like, like, okay, it's like, cool, we meet the person he's been talking to online, and now they're gonna invent a music player?
Ben: Like, what the fuck was that subplot? That was so weird.
Emily: It was horseshit and I didn't like it, but whatever. I don't, you know, that's, that's, it's a forgivable sin. You know, there's enough sins in this
Ben: I will say, I, I loved the whole blacklight shopping mall. That was a great just setting. The like, the
Ben: black, the blacklight aesthetic was
Craig: overhead fluorescent lighting in that mall at all, which absolutely would have been the case, like, in the 1990s.
Ben: I mean
Craig: entire mall, yeah, was just lit by, yeah.
Ben: I don't understand how that much blacklight exists or works, but I'm also like, I don't care, it looks cool.
Jeremy: I mean, they went to a 90s
Jeremy: Spencer’s, so.
Emily: That's
Craig: Well, yeah, it was like the whole mall was a 90's
Ben: like, quick, we gotta make the blood be Mountain [01:16:00] Dew. We need growing green blood.
Emily: I don't know why they had to have the blood be glowing green, but
Ben: I think that was for
S. E. : They wanted to make sure.
Ben: it the blacklight.
S. E. : Well, and they wanted to make sure you knew it was the 90s,
Emily: oh, so everything has to be neon, right?
Ben: They knew like, hey, we, hey, we just had the first half in 1666. We need people to know that now it's 300 years later and blood is neon because we're radical.
Jeremy: But it's weird knowing when these came out and the schedule at which they came out because The fact that they, like, fixed the thing with the, with there being way too much blood in this one, that she, like, cut her hand and then bled into a mop bucket and then they put it in squirt guns and shot it instead of, like, trying to spread the amount of blood that somebody would get out of their hand across an entire school through, through mopping.
Jeremy: I was like, oh, they fixed it. Wait, it must have been making these at the same time. They, they just didn't want to fix the other thing. It's very,
Jeremy: felt very first draft. I'm sorry.
Ben: Well, [01:17:00] what is it? Do you think they made, do you think they made the 1994 parts together? Cause they probably didn't. Make 1, 2, and 3, and then go back to 94. They probably, right? Like, they probably did 94 and 94 part 2 back to back, right?
Emily: I would, I would believe so. I mean, that's what would make sense, but I mean, her, like, maybe her, I, I just didn't notice her Pilgrim accent creeping in in the, first 1994 one, but like, I definitely, after hearing her, her Pilgrim accent, And then I could hear, maybe it was just her accent, I don't know, but I was hearing her pilgrim accent in 1994 and I'm like, am I, is this,
Jeremy: It's just like when your friend, like, goes to Australia and they come back and pretend like they have an accent and that they can use those slang words and it's fine,
Emily: Oh, yeah,
Jeremy: That's what it is. She's been in the 1600s and she's like, Yeah, these are totally normal words that people use and Oh, sorry, I've been in the 1600s.
Jeremy: I didn't [01:18:00] mean to drop that in there.
Emily: it's like Captain Picard with his flute, and
Jeremy: Everything is like Captain Picard with his flute in some way.
Emily: yeah, it all comes back to the Inner Light, which is the name of that episode of the Captain Picard where he lives a whole life and then plays a flute and then he comes out and he can play a flute.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: The end.
Questions
Ben: I Lived I wish he had a t sometimes he would just, like, wear a t shirt that said, I lived a whole other life and all I got was this stupid flute.
Jeremy: Hm. Hm.
Emily: just a t shirt, you know. I just became a flout, a flautist. But I don't remember anything else anyway. Was this movie feminist?
Ben: I mean, I do have to give any movie credit that knows, like, yes, teenage lesbian yearning is hard enough to fuck up a town for centuries. It's not in this particular instance, but it could. Mm
S. E. : You know, I think, I think it's feminish is how I'd put it. I
S. E. : like that, like, one of the central premises or one of the central themes, I should say, is homophobia is the [01:19:00] sin. I think
S. E. : that's, like, That's tight. I like that. Could they have done it better? Certainly, but I like the theme as is. The other theme I like that they didn't deliver on well enough, and we'll all agree why I think it, that I liked, is that wealth and power is built on the blood of the poor. It is a very, again, as we said, to its own detriment, race blind argument in this case, which is Stupid.
S. E. : I think we can all
S. E. : agree on that.
Emily: It's hard to make that or it's, it's hard to have that discussion in this case. It's really hard to have a discussion about class without race
Ben: The race,
Emily: especially since it's all set in the past.
Ben: and the way they reuse the actors where it's like, Like, they're not making a point about race by doing it, they're just being like, Well, we don't want to have to pay more actors, let's just get the ones we've already got on set to do it. Mm hmm.
S. E. : Well, and it's that
S. E. : Netflix casting a very light skinned biracial girl thing. Like that is their favorite casting. [01:20:00] And then they get to be like,
S. E. : what do you
S. E. : mean? This
Ben: you mean, you mean the opposite gender Tyler Perry love interest? Am I allowed to call out Tyler Perry? Am I gonna get in trouble for calling out Tyler Perry? Alicia, cut, Alicia, edit, save me.
Craig: It's pretty blatant, you know, it's, it's
S. E. : You know,
Craig: and yeah, you know, he's done more than enough to be called out by anyone that has reasonable
Ben: I'm like, fucking Atlanta, I'm not Atlanta, uh, fucking the boondocks was making this, that joke in the 2000s,
Emily: yeah,
Craig: yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, the, oh god, yeah, it's like, oh yeah, it's gonna always hire these like up and coming, very muscular, uh, you know, anyway, anyway,
Craig: Anyway, anyway,
S. E. : and, and another theme is ACAB, and I like that theme. I
Craig: Yeah.
S. E. : ACAB theme. Again, did they lean into it enough? No, they're like, oh, it's this family, and it's like,
S. E. : you coulda, you coulda, you
S. E. : coulda done
S. E. : something.
Ben: I think this movie does [01:21:00] really well is, I really love, like, it's, it feels like, whatever, you know, we, we've, it's had queer characters before, like, in every movie. movie we've had, you know, we've had lesbian characters and that romance is at the center of everything, but what I really appreciated was this, and in a way where the movie didn't feel the need to just like, look at the camera and have someone spell it out, it could be something you just like, felt and inferred, was this connection between Sarah and Dina, and that it was You know, the, the, a queer woman of a previous generation being able to reach out and a, and forge connection and guidance and help this younger queer generation.
Ben: It's a, it's a real, you know, plant the seeds of a tree who shade you'll never live to sit under, like sit within type of thing. [01:22:00] And, and that sense of. Intergenerational queer connection I found to be very powerful.
S. E. : I like
S. E. : that too.
Craig: I would say if anything, it's like a cautionary tale against straight relationships, you know, it's like the one, the one heterosexual relationship in this movie was like between Izzy and like the, the cop who is gaslighting her
S. E. : Don't do it. Just don't do
Craig: like a murdering like sociopath. So it's like, you know, Hey.
Craig: You know, like, like, like don't be straight. Just
Ben: yeah, just don't do it. Also,
Craig: One time it only takes one time. It only takes one
Ben: one other weird moment in this movie, uh, when they're accusing fuckin Hannah and, Sarah Fier. And the guy keeps, he's like, And she was riding a red mule! And past drunk Tommy is just like, says like, Yes, clearly more turned on than he has ever been in his entire life.
Jeremy: I love that,
Emily: Malleus [01:23:00] Maleficorum thing, but yeah,
Jeremy: McCabe Sly, who plays Tommy Slater in the, like, he's the Nightwing Killer in the second one, and is Mad Thomas in this one. Clearly, like, he didn't get enough time to really act in the second one, and for the third one he was like, I'm just gonna lean as far fucking into this as possible.
Jeremy: I'm gonna stumble everywhere, I'm gonna slur everything, I'm gonna go wild.
Jeremy: I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start my scene by stumbling backwards out of a,
Emily: Go off king.
Jeremy: he was doing the most, and I, Loved him for it. I much, I much refer that to the like, big pilgrim accent bits. Like, just, just really lean into it, you know?
S. E. : I think they set up like actually some really great concepts and I think it would have been better served by being a limited series,
S. E. : as I think we've all kind of set at different points. I think that just would have given it the room to breathe that would then, I've been thinking a lot about everybody's different critiques over the three episodes we've done.
S. E. : And I think it would solve a lot of the [01:24:00] problems we have with it and give it frankly more time to bake and more brains around it.
S. E. : It needs a writer's room. This concept just It didn't have enough to it. It didn't have the teeth it needed to be the story it was trying to be. It wanted, and Jeremy, I think you said this in the very first episode, it wanted us to do the heavy lifting of inferring all the meaning and It used a lot of tools and symbols we all recognize.
S. E. : And so we were able to pick our way through it and find things that we enjoyed. But I think ultimately, I wouldn't say it's like the greatest success of a, of a story or of a trilogy because it didn't go far enough with those pieces.
Emily: Yeah. I mean, it, it suffered from a lack of commitment.
S. E. : Well said.
Jeremy: You know, a lot of cases it, it opted for the, the boring or less taxing options. Like, you know, the, the very fact of sort of doing the 70s horror campout thing [01:25:00] instead of like, Following up on the Ruby Lane thing, or doing something more, more interesting, more unusual, it opted to go for the trope stuff in a way that, like, is obviously intentional, but is ultimately less interesting.
Jeremy: You know, I, I like I like a lot of the stuff that's here. I like a lot of the pieces and I wish that they had done more to put those pieces together in the original and interesting way. Because like I think, like we were talking about a lot of the themes that are in there, the sort of A Cab of it all and I think For me the like most, and this is something that I've been thinking about and like other stuff, I'm writing as well, the like idea that the people who will accuse you of things will accuse you of abusing this sort of power and doing these sort of, you know, witchcraft things and stuff that they accuse them of.
Jeremy: Those are the people that would do those things. Like that's why They accuse you of it because if they had that [01:26:00] power, they would do it to you.
Ben: You know, every accusation is a confession.
Ben: Uh, we
S. E. : already
S. E. : are. Exactly. Exactly.
Jeremy: yeah, it's, it's wild. So I think that is, you know, that's something that is absolutely in the movie. It's never something they say, they often said to go, Good is bad. And it's like, I get it. That's like a very
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: three word, like, throwaway thing. But like, there's so much behind that of like, You know, the people who are higher up are literally willing to sacrifice people to maintain the status
S. E. : Yes. Yeah. like, I love, I actually love that we think, if we're not all using our best film brains, we are led to believe for two and a half films, pretty much, that the bad guy is a witch. I love that, and I love that we're led to believe it's Sarah Fier. I think that is so compelling to then have that twist [01:27:00] happen, where it's like, oh my god, she's reacting to something, she's whatever, you know.
S. E. : I think we all had thoughts about like, oh, what if she was also the witch? Like, that could be more interesting. But I, I really thought that was interesting because I do think that's how, the convenience story we tell ourselves is rarely indicative of what's actually underneath, right? And I love that. I think that was compelling, but they didn't, they didn't, they didn't do it.
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : take us all the way into what's the real ramification of that. There were these moments of real emotion that I appreciated. I loved the way that I love whom the friends moved her body. I thought that was actually a real tenderness that gave the story some depth. But again, it was just, it was not, it wasn't all there and they couldn't get the pieces together.
Emily: Yeah. It wasn't as coherent as it really could have been with just like a couple more moves, like story. Points.
Ben: you said, it I mean, how many times have we in [01:28:00] this podcast been going through it and been like, And ourselves come up with, like, tiny little changes or additions that would have tied disparate elements together or expl easily explained things that weren't explained. I mean, like you said, it's like, this movie these movies, like, they need, like, a bit of a writer's room.
Ben: Like, they're needed someone to just kind of tie it all together. Cause, yeah, as much as this movie started out with like, ooh, Sunnyside and, or Sunnyvale and Shadyside, location is character, I don't think it, I don't think it fully got, I don't think it fully got there.
Emily: no, and I think, you know, there's a certain point where you do need to say something, like, it's not, they were, they were lazy on the parts. That they shouldn't have been, and they were oblique on the parts that they should have been direct, which is. Yeah, and, you know, cause like, the idea of this being a story, like, the, [01:29:00] the one thing that, like, if somebody, if there was some kind of question, like, of all these years, and all these people's touching Sarah Miller's hand and stuff like that, like, this is the one person who gets it, and that's because that she's, she's a lesbian, you know, it's because she has a very specific thing in common with Sarah Fear.
Emily: And she can understand that. And the fact that she's like, maybe she's more in touch with that part of herself than anybody else that has ever, you know, I'm not saying like, there's, it's impossible that any other lesbian had hands on that. But I'm saying, like, you know, in this particular moment, this girl who is a rebel, she's queer, she's, you know, a little bit of an outcast, you know, she has all these things going on, you know, maybe, maybe the, the race element is in there too, in terms of like.
Emily: Where she feels in the, in the role of her. For school and, and community and stuff like that. And that is what makes it possible for Dina to, to solve the mystery. [01:30:00] And,
S. E. : there. It's right there. They just, that's actually what I think pisses me off the most about this trilogy. Thank you all for basically watching a trilogy I liked, but wanted to talk about because it made me mad because I liked it so much, but it never was good enough for how much I liked it.
S. E. : Thank you. I'm very grateful because I think that's the thing is like, it's there. All the shit's there. Just fucking do it
S. E. : because guess what? Fucking Sam bleeds and touches the bones, but she can't get the vision the right way.
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : Uh, Ziggy bleeds and touches the bones. Can't get the vision the
Jeremy: I was, I was under the impression that you had, the reason that didn't work was that the body wasn't all together. This is the first time that the hand and the rest of the body were in
Ben: That's how I, that's how I interpret it.
S. E. : but why was Dina the one more obsessed, right? Like, I felt
S. E. : like that was also a piece of it. So I think to, to
Ben: Well, that's where, that's to
S. E. : think you're right.
Ben: that intergenerational lesbian
Emily: Yeah.
S. E. : And I think they could have, they could have had, Dina could have had a fucking [01:31:00] feeling about that.
S. E. : Dina could have felt something about
S. E. : the connection.
Emily: someone, someone could have had a, uh, had a, like a comment, like, How, why has it taken this long? And then Dina could have been like, Well, I, I, I saw how she felt. You know, and I understood how she felt like that's all she had to say, you know, and she may have said that but it just didn't like I, you know, she was very explicit about that and it was like, I could
Emily: understand. Yeah,
S. E. : You know what has a better sort of moment like this is Charmed. Does everyone remember that part of Charmed where
S. E. : they travel back to like, uh, they travel back to a witch hunt and it's, it's actually really good. So if you want to see this but better, Charmed, like
S. E. : old charmed old Charmed. It was so fucking good. I started wearing lipstick because of Charmed. I was like, look at those
S. E. : fucking pouty lips. They look good.
Emily: that was Rose McGowan, right?
S. E. : Uh, yes. in like the later seasons,
S. E. : yeah.
S. E. : yeah. [01:32:00] I was thinking of, we don't like her right now, but she
S. E. : plays Piper. Or No.
S. E. : Melissa.
Craig: Who's the other one? Alyssa Milano. Sorry, this is
S. E. : It's, yeah.
Emily: I, all I know about Charmed is that it had
S. E. : Ollie Marie Comb. Oh,
Emily: there
Craig: Oh yeah, and then the other one. The
S. E. : Oh, from 90210, right? yeah.
Craig: Shannon Doherty.
S. E. : Yes.
Craig: yeah. yeah. Um,
S. E. : they wrote her off. My God. drama.
Craig: I need
S. E. : can they still be the charmed ones?
Craig: Just saying.
S. E. : I missed it. What'd you say? I'm so
S. E. : sorry.
Craig: need food soon.
S. E. : yeah,
Ben: Yes, we're wrapping this up.
Ben: This movie, pretty good on women, good on gays, race is a bit of a mess.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It's messy when it comes to race.
Jeremy: It has nothing of interest to say about disability, or
Ben: for effort, not so much for execution.
Emily: Their heart was in the [01:33:00] right place, even if it was in a dungeon, um,
Jeremy: Their heart was in the wrong place, but the hand wasn't.
Ben: So, let's, you know, yo, we have come to the end of the Fear Street trilogy, three movies, do we recommend Fear Street?
S. E. : Totally. I think so.
Craig: Yeah.
Emily: The
Craig: I think it's entertaining enough.
Emily: ones. Yeah.
S. E. : Yeah. I think like it, if you like to watch, I love a sequel. If you enjoy watching a movie and going, wow, I wish there was more of this movie. This is a great one for that because there is more and it's confusing. And so that's, that's kind of, you know, it'll hold your attention.
Craig: Yeah. I definitely, again, I don't think it's like again at that like Mike Flanagan level of like,
S. E. : is not cinema.
Ben: don't we? This is very much R. L. Stine,
Craig: Like, yeah, like I feel like it wants to be like more like introspective, like thoughtful horror, like in some portions, but it's also like very, like I said, I think I've said before in [01:34:00] previous episodes, like that kind of 16 to like 21 year old kind of like seeking out that market.
Craig: Whereas Mike Flanagan is definitely more like you're an adult, a full grown cerebral frontal cortex developed, like you, you've been here before you want like, you know what you like, and like, I'm going to give you this like specific genre knowing exactly what that is. So I definitely think that this had like a little bit of an identity crisis.
Craig: In that sense where it felt like it was a little like scattered. in parts and in tone, but I think that overall it's entertaining. It's a good watch.
Jeremy: I think that this is a thing that can only really exist, I mean, for multiple reasons, in streaming. Like, Yeah, oh yeah. for lots of like, I would never see this in the theater. I
Craig: would never recommend seeing this in the theater.
Jeremy: a trilogy of very R rated [01:35:00] movies for the violence that is clearly aimed at 14 and 15 year olds, like, it's clearly aimed at people who are not old enough to go see an R rated movie in the theater by themselves but it is, you know, available to them because it's streaming.
Jeremy: There are three movies that they can all catch instead of, you know, I can't imagine trying to watch all of these three movies in theaters. Like, there are so many There's so many movies like this that came out, like, that the first one came out in theaters, and then they never made a second one because it didn't make enough money.
Jeremy: And this is like, this is like the case where that actually, the three movies actually get made because it's going on to Netflix. Exactly. so like, it kind of, it's, It's
Jeremy: funny because
S. E. : a product of its time, in that it came out during the ongoing pandemic. Which is like, I think that that's part of why it actually was successful, is how hungry people were for content.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: it's an interesting [01:36:00] artifact in a lot of ways, in that way. it's funny because I wouldn't recommend any of the individual movies, but all of the movies together, if you're gonna, like, if you're willing to put the six hours into it, go for it.
Craig: Yeah!
Craig: Just like over a weekend, like over the course of a weekend,
Ben: It got you
Ben: in the end.
Craig: Yeah.
Emily: That's what happened when I watched it the first time. You know, I saw it offered, and I heard I, like, saw some, some, like, A lot of movies. I'm in a big confession time right now. There's a lot of movies I have watched because I see GIF sets of them on Tumblr and I was like, oh wow, that looks cool. Um, that's how I found out about Mandy and boy did that.
Jeremy: even
S. E. : Mandy, fuckin Mandy.
Emily: I mean, that movie has its, has its, uh, it's a movie, but it has everything that I wanted out of it. Um,
S. E. : fights. Mmm,
Jeremy: It's this movie though is so this this trilogy is so like there are so many movies that are better made [01:37:00] that don't Land the stuff the way that this one does because like it manages to land the ending well Despite the fact that there's a lot of fucking turbulence getting there like It makes that landing it sticks it like you get it Like the
S. E. : Back to back
S. E. : flashbacks.
Jeremy: over the like four years.
Jeremy: We've been doing this podcast. I've seen so many You tragic queer horror movies like that are just like that are clearly some horror version of queer Romeo and Juliet or something that are just like And at the end everybody is sad and nobody gets anything good and then like this movie is a horror movie that is taking, you know, the, a lot of the stock horror tropes and putting in the like lesbian love story in the center and paying it off and letting them live happily ever after in the end, despite the fact that one of their friends got put through a fucking, bread shredder.
Ben: And the other got an axe to the head.
Jeremy: yeah, Axe to the Head is like [01:38:00] nothing.
Jeremy: Uh, they, they show
Emily: there were no nipples.
Jeremy: like twice in this fucking third movie. They were just like, remember
S. E. : was like, why? I don't Yes, I remember.
S. E. : It's burned into
Craig: because they spent a shit ton of money on those special
S. E. : they're like, you will fuckin look
S. E. : at it.
Emily: yeah.
S. E. : better fuckin look at it again.
Emily: at them.
Jeremy: we jelled that girl so many times. We just gotta I gotta show it to you again. Yeah, but like I feel like I felt worse throughout the course of like watching one and two especially that like at the end of three like for it to pay off and land well is great in a way that like there are so many other queer horror movies a lot of them not particularly queer and the people that are behind them that like feel the need to really drive home the sadness of queer, queer love and, and things that it's just like, it's nice to have a horror movie where this shit actually ends, uh, well, and they, you know, they pay everything off.
Jeremy: They, they deliver on it and the bad guys [01:39:00] get the justice or it's the, you know, they don't. And we, we talked about this with revenge movies, and we talked about this a lot with fucking They Slash Them, where they don't high road the fucking queer people at the end, and they're like, you can't kill the bad guy who's been murdering
Ben: Well, it's like what
Jeremy: because then you'll be as bad as him.
Jeremy: And it's like, the movie is like, no, you fucking stab him in the eye.
Ben: Yeah, we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna kill the corrupt cop, like, we're gonna, we're gonna do the, yeah, we're
Jeremy: They murder a cop in this movie, and there is no, there's no
Jeremy: repercussions. Good, for her,
Craig: slaughtering people for their for her, it's Like, yeah.
Emily: They do deliver on certain elements, not all of them that we've talked about, but they do deliver on certain elements that you would not expect from, like, a moderate, tale of justice of, you know, which is what I was talking about earlier with, like, you know, white storytelling in terms of talking about racial justice. yeah, they could have had more teeth, but they did have at least a couple big ones. And so, you know, and this movie deserves [01:40:00] accolades for that.
Jeremy: have more teeth, have big teeth, you know?
Emily: It's got big canines and that's what a horror movie is about. I would recommend this movie specifically with the first two because of that.
Ben: well, speaking of recommendations, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you
Emily: was, it's all good. I was just going to say like Jeremy, what Jeremy said was so real is like the fact that it landed smoothly, I was just so relieved that I'm like, okay, that was worth it. That was worth it. That was worth it. I might fly again.
Craig: have been the way to go like
S. E. : It would've.
Craig: because it would have kind of eliminated like it would have been like, okay, I know this has like more that I'm like, not necessarily seeing at this moment. I feel like when you have like a movie.
S. E. : You
S. E. : expect it to be a movie.
Craig: yeah, you
Craig: like, because each of these like pretty much ends on a cliffhanger and then like the next movie starts with a recap and it's like, that's a television show that that's how that's [01:41:00] how a television show works.
Craig: That's not how movies generally work, or I don't think should work because like, yeah, sure.
S. E. : may have learned that with
Craig: Like, sure, like, there's like things where it's like, yeah, there's like, you know, like, just to give the most, like, you know, prevalent, prominent answers, like the MCU, like, you know, all the way through Endgame, where it's like, okay, yes, there are things where, like, you may not necessarily get specific references if you have not watched, like, the previous movies, and outside of, I think, like, Infinity War and Endgame, There's not really, like, a movie that you can't watch in the MCU, where if there's something entertaining about it, you don't necessarily need to have, like, watched every movie before it.
Craig: Like,
S. E. : And I would say at the same time, every single one of them, the one of, not every single one of them, the good ones, the weakest thing about them is the fact they have to be in the MCU.
Craig: Right, like, yeah, like, like, like, I feel like, [01:42:00] I feel like anyone could watch, like, Winter Soldier, like, as, like, as,
Craig: its own movie and, like, have it without ever having watched any other movie within the MCU and still have a good time watching it. I don't think these movies have that same level of like, grace or leniency.
Craig: I think you, like, these have to be watched all the way through in order to appreciate any of them, which is, makes me feel like it would have been better as a show. Like,
S. E. : and, and it would lend itself to what they're going to do next, which I think I said last time, which is there's going to be a Fear Street 4,
S. E. : and it's called The Prom Queen. And it would really lend itself to that true detective kind of treatment, where it's like you have a season with this, this group of people, and then you have a season with this, and you follow this storyline, and then because it's set all on Fear Street, all in this place, you would be able to bounce through history and,
S. E. : and be in these different places in a really, a more productive way is how I would put it.
Emily: And there's a series worth of information here. And, you know, [01:43:00] if they just advertised it as a limited series with just really long episodes, I think there would have been a little bit less in terms of expectation of when you say, you know, movie. Um,
Jeremy: I would think this director in particular would be aware that you can have a TV series that has extra long episodes,
Emily: yeah. Yeah.
S. E. : I wonder too, like, was this, like, Netflix trying out this, like, is there a possibility of a format, like,
S. E. : you know, I'm
Craig: I'm sure they
S. E. : what happened
S. E. : behind the scenes, and I, and I wonder if they consider it a success, you know what I mean? Like,
S. E. : do they think it, like,
Jeremy: knows? Who knows what Netflix thinks of the success? Honestly, I don't know
Emily: That's right.
Craig: Yeah.
Jeremy: figure it out. Yeah, so, uh, what else do we recommend? If, if people enjoyed this, what should they go watch next?
Craig: The Witch. The much, much better version of the 1666,
Emily: Yeah.
Craig: storyline as its own, like, stand alone movie. Like, The Witch is unquestionably, like, [01:44:00] superior to, like, this, and also, like, I mean, the tones are vastly different. Again, like we said before, this is a part of like a trilogy of things that probably should have been a TV show or a limited series.
Craig: But The Witch is like the vibes of like, very like, you know, colonial, old school, like, time period. Very clear in its messages of like, women plus knowledge equals like fear from like the men that are around them and does a really good job with portraying that and then also you know spoiler of like having women actually like gain that power and being able to like and being able to like live their lives beyond the constraints of you know the essentially being sold as property or cattle.
Jeremy: I gotta say if somebody did a fucking [01:45:00] like 2000s same world updated version of the witch I would fuck with that like if you know They just did they did basically what fear street is doing and like tying, you know different stories together With like something more like the witch I watch that.
S. E. : And I think
S. E. : that might be called Wednesday.
Ben: there you
Emily: haven't seen Wednesday, so, but yeah, now maybe
S. E. : I'm not saying, I find Wednesday very, like, that's a word I would use
S. E. : for it. But I thought about it a lot watching this one because there's a whole Pilgrim thing, there's a whole Pilgrim back, like there's a flashback, there's like the Ancestor, there's Ancestor Goody, Addams, so I don't know, whether or not you like Wednesday, it is about a similar thing, so I think it falls on the list, as I would say, I would put Charmed on the list.
S. E. : If you enjoy this sort of like witches and flashbacks, uh, and then of course, Legends of Tomorrow has a great episode where Sarah Lance goes back to like the witch trials and it's like fucking witches. And that's
S. E. : just, well, you know what? [01:46:00] That girl belongs through history doing that. I often personally think, and I'm, you know, I'm among amongst aficionados, so tell me if you disagree. I think that so often if the best of what we can do in horror is happening in podcasts. So I would absolutely recommend the specific story Spores Nightmare Magazine by Shannon McGuire, that one is so fucking terrible and good. The show Mabel, if you like lesbians up against odds, that
Ben: You know, we do.
Emily: we love that shit.
S. E. : Mabel is that, oh, especially that first arc of Mabel, that'll fuck you up. Uh, and then Nightlight, which is all horror by black authors from around the world.
S. E. : They have just unendingly awesome episodes, such good mind fucks, and I always have to shout them out when I can. So that's, those are, those are my recommendations.
Craig: Sorry, I had one more. And it's a movie that I [01:47:00] just randomly decided to watch. I don't know why I decided to watch this movie, but I actually was, like, surprisingly enjoyed it. It's called Bit. B I T,
Craig: and it
Jeremy: We talked about
Ben: yeah,
Craig: Oh, you have! Oh,
Emily: it's on our top, our, our, our top movies list on Twitter
Craig: was, like, surprised! I think I was, like, just, like, browsing on Tubi, and I was like, oh, okay, like, vampire movie, and I was, like, started watching it, and it's like, oh, it's a movie about lesbian vampires who, like, refused to make men vampires.
Craig: Like,
Emily: Yeah,
Craig: it's, it's actually, and it's actually like surprisingly good. There's like no recognizable names that you will find in this movie, at least not me, but I, I really had
S. E. : Well, Nicole Maines, who played Dreamer in Supergirl,
Craig: Oh,
Jeremy: she's much more recognizable name now than she was when bit
Craig: but,
S. E. : came out, absolutely. Absolutely.
Craig: But yeah, I, that was, that was really [01:48:00] a fun movie that I was pleasantly surprised with.
S. E. : Oh,
Ben: No, that's it. That's a really fun one. We like that movie a lot.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Jeremy: we've got an episode about that movie as well as an episode where we talked to, uh, Brad Elmore, who's the director of that movie,
Jeremy: if people want to
Ben: you're right, it's all about you know, it's all about the Vvitch, very much so,
Emily: Oh yeah, The Witch. I really enjoy The Witch. I, we did an episode about that one too, where we, you know, we really pried that one open. So to speak but I mean, I love both that movie. There was a movie like it that was a little bit more contemporary called a wounded fawn, which I also really liked very, you know, it was not by a 24, but it was very much like, this, victim of a serial killer.
Emily: and invoking the furies and stuff and it was, you know, it was fucking cool. So I recommend that. I also recommend something that is completely off the chart here, but I think everyone here will enjoy it. There's a new anime on [01:49:00] Crunchyroll called Brave Earn, or like Brave Bang Brave Earn or whatever,
Ben: yes.
Emily: don't, look it up.
Emily: Don't, I mean, just, just know that it's
Ben: Just Google Braver Bang, I'm sure that'll
Emily: Yeah, no, no, no. Well, I'm saying like, go into that shit cold.
Ben: Okay,
Emily: if you're, if you're a robot fan, if you like Gundams or Evangelions or any, anything that involves these, tropes,
Jeremy: You're not. How have you put up with this this long?
Emily: I mean, yeah, then check that out. It's a comedy, and that's all I'll say about it.
Ben: well sounds good.
Emily: yeah, so,
Ben: SE, I think that about, unless I'm mistaken, I think that about wraps it up.
Jeremy: I've got a, I haven't given a recommendation
Jeremy: yet. yeah, please. oh well fuck,
Jeremy: I, I've only really watched, I think one movie we're not already talking about this week. And, uh, that was Fast X, which, uh, I, you know, whole, I wholeheartedly recommend for, for different reasons. Uh, [01:50:00] I, the fact that Jason Momoa's character is like, what if
Ben: the
Jeremy: Batman existed for 20 years before the Joker showed up?
Jeremy: How would people react to that?
Ben: Yeah, yeah, he's carjoker, and he's amazing. I hear rumors They wanted they want to get rid of him in the next movie, and I'm like you're insane like how dare
S. E. : insane to do that. he's the beast. so
Ben: He's the best villain in the series.
Jeremy: yeah, the, the, the series is so, it's so self serious even as it's doing the most ridiculous things and throwing him in there is just, he's so good at doing what he does. So, I mean, I, I sort of recommend that, but the thing I wanted to recommend in relationship to this is I was, I was reminded of a movie that I saw.
Jeremy: Some time ago and really enjoyed that is sort of tied to this. Uh, it's called the half of it. And the half of it is, is a sort of, sort of a queer retelling of Cyrano de Bergerac, you know, which is about, uh, smart. Girl who goes who has a crush on another girl and ends up getting sort of like [01:51:00] paid by this boy that goes to school with them to help him write like love letters and be, you know, romantic toward this, this other girl that she has feelings for.
Jeremy: And of course, that goes great. You know, nothing could
S. E. : an Alice Wu
S. E. : film. Yeah.
S. E. : it's Alice Wu who also did saving face. So like, you know, it's
S. E. : going to be iconic queer shit,
Ben: Oh, I lo I love Saving Face. That's my recommendation. Go see Saving Face.
S. E. : Also iconic. Oh, Alice Wu.
Jeremy: Yeah. I, I loved the half of it. I don't remember what it was we were watching that somebody recommended or, you know, that was related to it in some way. And I was like, yes, that, that movie was great. And I kind of like forgot about it because it was like, a movie that didn't get the love it deserved.
Jeremy: And it was really, it's really good. So yeah, go, find the half of it, go watch it, and, you know, watch Saving Face while you're at it.
Craig: I recommend not watching Argyle. Just don't, just stay away from it. Just stay away.
Emily: Andu.
Jeremy: you heard [01:52:00] Craig, go watch Madam Web instead.
Craig: mean, I haven't seen that one, but It's gotta be better than our dial. It has to
Craig: be Oh, but Ninja Kamie also good. anime on HBO Max, by the way, just if you're looking for something,
Emily: Oh
Craig: it's an adult swim show on Max, also it's so adorable and
Emily: I love Dungeon Meshi.
Craig: oh my God, it's so great. We get like panty shots from Senshi, like, which is just like, never happens.
Craig: It's like, we get like a man giving like panty shots in
Emily: it's a dwarf, a big hairy dwarf character with panty shots.
Craig: it's like, yeah, this is what I need in my life.
Emily: It's so good, and you do want it, like you do, it is rewarding, like this dwarf character is so good, and apparently like, fun fact about the artist, who is a woman. has like, yeah, she has a bunch of sketches that she released where she's like, you know, I couldn't draw Senshi hairy, but this is how he looks like to me and she drew him like [01:53:00] super hairy and my
Craig: God,
Craig: I'm sure the internet just went insane.
Emily: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. She drew him in his little like dwarf panties. It was so good.
Jeremy: I, I, my favorite fact about that not having seen any of it is that the writer put Dungeon Meshi on, like, temporary, or on possibly permanent hiatus to go play Baldur's Gate 3 when it came out.
Ben: Amazing.
Jeremy: She was like, Baldur's Gate 3 came out. The book is over for now. We'll see if it comes back.
Ben: What
Craig: if I come back.
Ben: Amazing.
Emily: yeah, and she does have some Baldur's Gate fan art on her Twitter, so, or, you know, various, if you can find her on not Twitter, the, you know, go find her, it's Ryoko Kui, K U I. I just, I recommend following her, uh, she's got some good shit out there.
Jeremy: Awesome.
Emily: thank you all.
Craig: Yes, it's been wonderful sharing this journey with you.
Emily: yeah.
Emily: It was fun revisiting it. I'm really glad we got to talk about it, and I'm really glad to hear [01:54:00] the, the, the love, you know, even though we have our, you know, we all have our opinions, but what, what matters most is the love.
Jeremy: They really, they really Sully Sullenberg-ed this sucker. Like, it was, it was a rough ride in the middle, but it landed.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: You know, the plane made it.
S. E. : Oh, I really thought they were going to kill off Josh. I was glad they didn't,
S. E. : you
Ben: me too.
Ben: I
S. E. : was like, if they kill off this kid, I swear to God,
Ben: I was glad we didn't lose anyone else in 94.
S. E. : Yeah. Cause we, we, we did some major losses in that first
S. E. : one. yeah.
S. E. : Fuck
S. E. : me up.
Ben: Is it, is it time to make like Mario and plug away?
Ben: That didn't work. That didn't make sense. I thought it was plum not plug. I got that confused. That was a mess. That was nothing.
Emily: I mean, it depends on the kind of Mario we're talking about. Sure.
Craig: yeah.
Jeremy: S. E., do you want to plug like Mario?[01:55:00]
S. E. : Oh, my God. I was all, huh? Okay. Uh, yes, I am one of the co hosts of the bi weekly pop culture and comic podcast, Bitches on Comics. We put out episodes every other week. You can find us at bitchesoncomics. com or at bitchesoncomics on the social medias. All of them, pretty much. Enjoy. You can also check out Decoded Horror Channel, which is our narrative horror fiction podcast it has five episodes out so far and we have more to come called decoded horror channel again That's decodedpride. com. You can learn about me and you know hire me for things. I'm at sefleenor.com. Lot of dot coms. I'm also at se_fleenor on blue sky and Instagram I'm not very active because you know The world's a mess, but I really like progressively horrified.
S. E. : So thanks for having me.
Ben: Oh, well, we've [01:56:00] loved having you. So thank you so much for coming on for this trilogy.
S. E. : Oh, yeah, and I'm coming back already The plans are in place
Ben: Yay.
Jeremy: Fantastic.
Craig: yeah, I am a couple episodes on Decoded Horror. I am on the social medias. I am on, I guess not Twitter, at Cathartic and Instagram at Craig Na Rock. And, I'm around doing things. that's my little plug there. I just got a little plug, you know, it's like easy, wearable for all day, comfort, you know, just a nice little plug.
S. E. : Perfection
Jeremy: Fantastic.
Jeremy: Uh,
Craig: be coming back to this podcast, obviously, from everyone's reaction.
Emily: no,
S. E. : longer absolutely, no, you're absolutely invited back. I need to, I need validation for [01:57:00] my, uh, my plugs. Yeah, Megamoth, duh,
Jeremy: yeah, that does it for us. Uh, Emily, Ben, do you want to know, uh, do you want to know where people can find you on the internet?
Ben: no.
Jeremy: Do you want to let people know where they can find you on the internet?
Ben: Oh, well in that case, yeah, find [e-mail]. Uh, hit me up at, uh, blue Skyer Instagram, Ben Conn Comics. I'm still on Twitter at Ben the Con and uh, I don't know, maybe something a little been announced by the time this comes out, but I don't know what, so fuck it. Check out my old work like Captain Laser Hawk and Renegade Rule and L Campbell.
Jeremy: Do it. Emily, what about you?
Emily: yeah for all your Megamoth needs. I have art, and then I do this podcast, and sometimes I teach, but I mostly do art and this podcast. But yeah, megamoth. net has all of my stuff, and you can just go there and [01:58:00] find it.
Jeremy: Fantastic. Succinct. So you can also find me on Twitter and Instagram at jrome58, on my website at jeremywhitley. com, you can find me on BlueSky and Tumblr at jeremywhitley and you can find, uh, my books including the newly released The Cold Ever After from Titan, just came out in February. You should go pay money for that and make them believe that they should pay me more money to make more books. As for the podcast, you can find us on Patreon. It's Progressively Horrified. You can find us on our website at progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm and on Twitter @proghorrorpod. And we would love to hear from you, and speaking of loving to hear from you, we would love it if you'd rate and review the podcast wherever you're listening to it.
Jeremy: Giving us five stars helps more people find us, which helps us make more podcasts. So you're really just helping yourself in that case. Thank you very much to S. E. And Craig for this, uh, amazing experience. I've been putting off watching these for, for some time because watching three movies is just too much of a [01:59:00] commitment for me these days.
Jeremy: But watching them with you all made it all worth it.
Craig: wonderful. Cool.
S. E. : was a pleasure
Emily: And come back soon.
Jeremy: Yes, absolutely, both of you, soon. Alright, that's it for us, and, uh, I believe next week all of you will be hearing the beginning of our, Funky Vampire, uh, month, so, uh, enjoy let hearing us talk about Underworld. Uh, we've already done that in our time, but next week we'll be talking about Twilight, so
Jeremy: get
Emily: And I'll be at, sadly, I'll be at Emerald City, so I will not be talking about Twilight, and so
Jeremy: Don't, don't let her fool you, she will be talking about Twilight just at Emerald
Jeremy: City Yeah.
Emily: come talk to me at Emerald City Comic Con. Come to my table. I don't remember which number it is. I'm bad at self promotion.
Jeremy: That's alright, it will have happened in the past already anyways,
Emily: Yeah, there
Ben: There you
Ben: go. Alright, bye everyone.
Craig: Bye!
Jeremy: until next time, stay horrified.